Obama State of the Union

[Bill 84 318i]

maybe because you killed 6 million educated, industrious Jewish citizens

Godwin's law, everyone.

As for your bosses, I chalk that up to just being how their brain works. I get it. It's a "show me" worldview, which I empathize with. So you say that they don't believe anything that there isn't evidence for...but then you say that they blindly support the left? It doesn't sound like they're the kind of people that would do that. Have you gotten into deep political discussions with them to see why they think what they do?

As for the "what's after death" question, your pithy "crickets" remark is right on target. I don't need anything. I look around the world and wonder how I could possibly want anything more - I don't want to waste this life living for the one that's next.

I know we've moved off-topic enough (though I don't feel badly, since the first seven pages weren't exactly constructive conversation), but let's try to keep it under control.

[chadthestampede]

Man you guys have way to much time to piss, bitch and moan. Your mouths and hands would be way more useful on my cock then on your cum covered computer keyboards typing out regurgitated shit from FOX.

Mediocre troll is mediocre.

[Leaf]

Man you guys have way to much time to piss, bitch and moan. Your mouths and hands would be way more useful on my cock then on your cum covered computer keyboards typing out regurgitated shit from FOX.

[jeff_b]

"Science misses sometimes" That's an understatement. I work for a company that makes scientific instruments (mass spec/gas analyzers) and systems using differing technologies (such as photo multiplier tubes/tunable laser diodes, etc.) I work with PhDs who, for whatever reason (except to maybe feed their own lofty over-educated egos?), don't believe in anything that science cannot prove, such as our current crises du jour. Such crises include climate warning, H1N1, and last but not least, the theory of evolution. Our PhDs at ThermoFisher are quite liberal, and blindly support the left, including every single candidate with a "D" after their name. In their viewpoint, people of faith are dim-witted, uneducated blue-collar losers who either refuse to believe the scads (kidding) of evidence of the above hot topics, are just too stupid to understand, or too drunk and lethargic on Bud Light to even care. You could say science missed the mark on all three of my examples, since there is no overwhelming evidence to support any of it, but they pick evolution to rally against. Perhaps they don't understand the concept of faith and one ultimate God. Call me dim-witted, but when I die, I know I have a promise of a perfect place where I have no needs, and the love of my almighty God is enough to light the sky. It makes me comfortable in my dim-witted loser life. What does your belief system promise you after death? (insert cricket noise here)

Oh yeah, why is it that Europe doesn't argue over evolution? Loss of Biblical faith, maybe because you killed 6 million educated, industrious Jewish citizens, and replaced them with a nearly equal number of uneducated, lazy, unemployed Muslims that are killing your culture in an ultimate effort to take over your countries. France is finally starting to see the detrimental effect of the Muslim influence. Wake up, Europe, before its too late.

[Bill 84 318i]

C.S. Lewis once wrote:

"No man who says I'm as good as you believes it. He would not say it if he did. The St. Bernard never says to the toy dog, nor the scholar to the dunce, nor the employable to the bum, nor the pretty woman to the plain. The claim to equality, outside of the strictly political field, is made only those who feel themselves to be in some way inferior. What it expresses is precisely the itching, smarting, writhing awareness of an inferiority which the patient (you) refuses to accept."

You seem to make a point of how intelligent you are, at the expense of everyone else. I don't even think you believe it when you say it.

The fact about Creationism/Evolution, even "dancing on the ID line", one has to accept that no one truly knows. Which just eventually bleeds into a system or series of beliefs which would make an individual feel as though he is better, or smarter or more enlightened than the next or than someone of the adjacent view point. The fact that you prop yourself up, as much more learned, self-righteous, condescending and despite all of everything you are, you're just a mild regurgitation of what has already been said by both sides. You bull headedly pigeon hole everyone or anyone that doesn't line up with your "facts" as weak minded. Or how did you put it so humbly? "...indicative of their ability to rationalize and solve problems". Not only this, but you go onto say how you wont budge nor change your stance.

While you're enlightened, or more versed, or better learned on any number of subjects, you would willingly if not enthusiastically lay blame for all the worlds problems at those not in line with your flagrant sense of what is. When I see religion and everyone of it's evil, nasty connotations, I see you.

I'll sum this up in the weak minded and lesser ability to solve problems since I believe in God...

Go fuck yourself.

I don't know if you're implying that I have an inferiority complex or the opposite; you said both. Regardless, I hope that tangent ends here.

But you're probably right. I may have come across as arrogant, and you have every right to call me out on it. But again, it's missing the point and redirecting the discussion. And on that note, I guess I don't know how to engage in an honest discussion about it without coming across that way, because the direction you've gone is the same way 90% of all other discussions with religious people go.

As for the fact that I won't "budge", it does come across that I said that. But when I said "I welcome any arguments on that", I hope that implied that I'm open for honest discussion. Nothing would excite me more than to hear a calm, rational argument that opposed my view. Learning is exciting.

So back to the real discussion, the interesting one.

I don't know that "no one truly knows" is a true statement. To paint our knowledge of the history of humans and animals and the earth as black and white is doing a disservice to it, as well as yourself. But as for the stuff we don't know, what I appreciate about science is that at least it tries. Sure, it misses sometimes, but that's the beauty of it. It's self correcting. And I think that people that turn a blind eye to it are not those I would want as a boss.

[kronus]

Yet it's treated, defended and acted out just like one. That, moron, was the point.

...No, it isn't. Unless you are claiming that religion is a theory that people with a magic book that tells them what's right or not have been attempting to discredit since its first formulation.

[ck_taft325is]

What a fucktard you make. Evolution is not religion.

Yet it's treated, defended and acted out just like one. That, moron, was the point.

[Massive Lee]

Yeah it annoys me too when people push their religion on me... Evolution included.

And there's this place called the Middle East.

What a fucktard you make. Evolution is not religion.

[ck_taft325is]

I'm honestly eager to hear your side - I fully acknowledge not being an expert on economics or politics. So I ask that you don't take my questions as facetious or condescending. To be fair, I only quoted her once, and it was out of a book that she wrote - I don't believe I took anything unfairly out of context. And I don't think that I criticized her outside of that context, either.

I think that your circulatory system analogy is a bit dramatic, so much that I didn't bother to follow it. It was even more vague. Please don't condescend and speak in metaphors, and trust me that I'm intelligent enough to follow. I may not even disagree! Though I don't know why you're countering my Palin/Creationsim argument with a discussion of big government.

I do think that a person's position on creationism/evolution is indicative of their ability to rationalize and solve problems, and I won't step back from that. I welcome any arguments on this.

C.S. Lewis once wrote:

"No man who says I'm as good as you believes it. He would not say it if he did. The St. Bernard never says to the toy dog, nor the scholar to the dunce, nor the employable to the bum, nor the pretty woman to the plain. The claim to equality, outside of the strictly political field, is made only those who feel themselves to be in some way inferior. What it expresses is precisely the itching, smarting, writhing awareness of an inferiority which the patient (you) refuses to accept."

You seem to make a point of how intelligent you are, at the expense of everyone else. I don't even think you believe it when you say it.

The fact about Creationism/Evolution, even "dancing on the ID line", one has to accept that no one truly knows. Which just eventually bleeds into a system or series of beliefs which would make an individual feel as though he is better, or smarter or more enlightened than the next or than someone of the adjacent view point. The fact that you prop yourself up, as much more learned, self-righteous, condescending and despite all of everything you are, you're just a mild regurgitation of what has already been said by both sides. You bull headedly pigeon hole everyone or anyone that doesn't line up with your "facts" as weak minded. Or how did you put it so humbly? "...indicative of their ability to rationalize and solve problems". Not only this, but you go onto say how you wont budge nor change your stance.

While you're enlightened, or more versed, or better learned on any number of subjects, you would willingly if not enthusiastically lay blame for all the worlds problems at those not in line with your flagrant sense of what is. When I see religion and everyone of it's evil, nasty connotations, I see you.

I'll sum this up in the weak minded and lesser ability to solve problems since I believe in God...

Go fuck yourself.

[Bill 84 318i]

*snip for space, scroll up*

I'm honestly eager to hear your side - I fully acknowledge not being an expert on economics or politics. So I ask that you don't take my questions as facetious or condescending. To be fair, I only quoted her once, and it was out of a book that she wrote - I don't believe I took anything unfairly out of context. And I don't think that I criticized her outside of that context, either.

I think that your circulatory system analogy is a bit dramatic, so much that I didn't bother to follow it. It was even more vague. Please don't condescend and speak in metaphors, and trust me that I'm intelligent enough to follow. I may not even disagree! Though I don't know why you're countering my Palin/Creationsim argument with a discussion of big government.

I do think that a person's position on creationism/evolution is indicative of their ability to rationalize and solve problems, and I won't step back from that. I welcome any arguments on this.

[Bill 84 318i]

Oh, fellas. I said I wouldn't reply unless something intellectual comes up and here you go proving me wrong. Perhaps I came across as more vitriolic than I intended, and for that I apologize. Going through the first seven pages of this thread, I thought I might be able to discard sensitivity.

So, here. I brought up one point. I didn't bring up Obama, or his ideals, or how they might be interpreted as religion, or anything like that. If you thought that what I brought up was arrogant, then I apologize again. Please, be objective.

I never once said that people don't have the right to believe what they want. Ever. When people exercise that right, whether it be a popular version of Christianity or Sikhism or Tenrikyo or the Flying Spaghetti monster, help yourself. I'm all for the Article 6 in that respect. Honest. I'll be the first to acknowledge that it does a lot of good in the world - as an example, most recovering addicts that I know needed their own personal form of a higher power to assist them.

But I think that religion and the pros/cons of it in general is, though related, a different topic than what I would hope people would look for in leadership. I think you're missing my point.

I look at things that there are evidence of and base my "belief" on that. And I expect the same of the people that are in control of this nation. Whether religious or not, (and it is a grey area - young earth creationists are far different than people that dance on the ID line) I expect intellect and critical thinking and open-mindedness from people of power. Some may argue that Obama hasn't reached across the aisle enough and that's a different topic than I'm addressing.

Regardless of whether I'm right or wrong - I expect at least an intellectual response, not for you all to take immediate offense. If that's your initial reaction, then it's sad that it's all that you have left.

[Hallen]

Four words: Hair of the dog.

lol, that's not a cure, that just perpetuates condition so you don't have to feel the after-affects. Sooner or later, you'll have to face the consequences.

But that was funny. I think I may just get drunk and see how long I can stay that way. Think I can go three more years?

[Danny]

So, in other words, you can't heal something by increasing the actions that made it sick in the first place.

Four words: Hair of the dog.

[Hallen]

I'm trying to stay out of most of this (and chances are I won't be back unless something intellectual shows up), and perhaps this isn't the right thread, but the rolleyes caught me on this one.

The woman does not believe in evolution. She doesn't think that man evolved from "monkeys who eventually swung down from the trees." If you look at all the evidence - and this is not some outrageous, anecdotal example - and realllly don't believe in evolution, then you clearly lack the ability to apply critical thinking to issues in general. For Christ's sake (pun not intended but not removed), she's even declared herself a young earth creationist (and, to be fair, backpedaled from it)!

Someone of such incompetence is not fit for office. Period.

It's this kind of thinking that really does tick me off. It's bigotry, plain and simple. So many intellectual wannabes are such hypocrites. I think its hilarious. They don't even see the contradiction in their positions. The leftist radicals have whooped up such a shit-storm about religious people that weak minded, green necks think that it's OK to discriminate against religious people.

Also, most of her more outlandish religious beliefs, well, they aren't her beliefs. That the stuff I talked about before. Most of it was dreamed up by leftist bloggers who plainly state they're making it up, but somehow, it kept getting repeated and suddenly, it's a fact.

Now, lets talk about critical thinking.
Obama believes, heart and soul, that government spending and greatly increasing the monetary supply can pull an economy out of a recession.
The fact is, it can't. Not even Keynes believed that it could. It's a political bastardization of his theories.

However, there are still groups of economists and a whole lot of politicians, who believe that it can work. They refuse to even consider any other path since anything else would fly in the face of what they believe in; what they have faith in.

Basically, it's like this. Your heart and circulatory system is the economy. The Fed is stupid and starts you on an IV of blood because he thinks it will make you better. All that extra blood causes your heart to work harder and now your veins are stretched to the max. But he keeps pumping more in. Now your veins are so full that your heart just can't push any more out there, so it quits. Obama's answer is to start pumping blood into you using a high pressure pump. Your heart isn't beating, but the pressure moves the blood a little keeping you alive. Unfortunately, your veins are now rupturing and blood is spurting everywhere and your heart still isn't beating. Now Obama claims his high pressure blood healed you. Take away that high pressure now, and you die. But the funny thing is, if you just let the extra blood drain away, and the pressures to drop, the heart will be able to take the load and it will start up again. All without having to do anything extreme.

So, in other words, you can't heal something by increasing the actions that made it sick in the first place. Yet that is the policy that Obama follows.

It's folly, pure and simple. It's a belief in something that doesn't work. They believe it, therefore it must be true. Wow, yep, that's good critical thinking, isn't it? We should vote for a guy who thinks like that.

I don't really care if a politician believes in evolution or not. It isn't relevant to governing. But I damned sure care how they approach the economy because that has a direct and lasting affect on all of us. Obama fails miserably on economic terms. He slavishly follows a set of assumptions that were proven false years ago. I would argue that it's HIS lack of critical thinking that is the problem. He is just as much of a faith driven fanatic as Jim Jones, and like Jim Jones, he is afraid to examine his beliefs because he knows the truths there will destroy him.

[Anthrax]

In God We Trust

It makes me wonder if it would say the same, if the pilgrims that settled on Plymouth happened to be presbyterian instead of puritan.