Obama on FOX News at 6PM EST....

[Ral]

Slippery slope here. The state needs to do what is in the best interests of the people as a whole and not kowtow to religious people any more than they already do.

agreed. That includes providing state funding to those on the left who think abortion should be subsidized by the government against the wishes of those who believe it is against their set of beliefs. I don't think the government should condone or condemn either way.

I would think it to be in the state's best interests to avoid the unnecessary propagation of new future welfare recipients, at least until a system can be devised that will create a potent disincentive to pregnancy by people unwilling or unable to care for and effectively parent a child into a self-supporting member of society.

We need more smart people. Not more dumb ones.....

agreed again.. but it's not the government's job (in fact, it's against the Constitution) to regulate who can have kids. There's lots of deadbeats from good homes, there's lots of productive citizens who had rough lives. The real answer is to fix education.. and not college/high school, but focus on early childhood development, particularly in lower-income areas with the intent of making the kids from there competitive at a national level, not forcing institutes of higher learning to accept sub-par students to correct an imagined "achievement gap".

And, to emphasize the role of good parenting in developing productive citizens. This has been shown to be the number-one prediction of how kids will do in the future. (I'll go look up the studies.)

[E30 Cabrio]

It's a shame your mother didn't swallow you.

Instead, your mother swallowed me and payed me afterward.

[mar1t1me]

I feel that the state should not be using money from those who are religiously opposed to abortion for the purpose of helping someone else get one.

Slippery slope here. The state needs to do what is in the best interests of the people as a whole and not kowtow to religious people any more than they already do.

The State should remain neutral- it should not prohibit, nor condone with tax dollars, the procedure.

I would think it to be in the state's best interests to avoid the unnecessary propagation of new future welfare recipients, at least until a system can be devised that will create a potent disincentive to pregnancy by people unwilling or unable to care for and effectively parent a child into a self-supporting member of society.

We need more smart people. Not more dumb ones.....

[mar1t1me]

"I like makin' money, but I don't like workin".

That could have been uttered by virtually anyone associated with Wall Street. Shit-who wouldn't like to make money when they do well.....and when they completely fuck up, too.....

[stegosaurus]

Or maybe people shouldn't be pieces of shit and use a condom properly. Or at least have the women take BC. Maybe if this new age world we live in wasn't so ass fucking backwards we wouldn't have this problem.

I wanna fuck at 12 but I don't want any responsibilities ever. I wanna cell phone at 12 but I don't wanna do my school work. I wanna drive but I don't wanna work. Fuck this new age world we live in.

Back in the day you didn't fuck till you were at least 18.

I actually walked past a black girl today who said "I like makin' money, but I don't like workin".

[Turf1600]

So what about the children of men who beat their wives? What about children of men who are chronic drug addicts? Do you think those kids constantly remind their mothers of being mistreated? Do you know anyone who has a child due to a rape? I do and guess what, you can't pick him out of a crowd and automatically know that his real "father" was a rapist. He is a normal kid, his mom still loves him and even her husband who is his father now loves him. They may have some inner hate for the child that nobody knows about but some how I don't think that is the case.

Good for her. I'm glad it worked out that way. However, she had the right to abort her unwanted child. At the end of the day, that's all I ask for.

[Turf1600]

And it is an extreme measure, that most people hope they won't have to face. BTW Next time you attend an HPDE, tell your instructor you intend to use guardrails and concrete walls as a way to control your speed... ;-)

I won't, because I don't intend to have an abortion. I just feel strongly that it is a right.

[Turf1600]

honestly, while I have mixed views regarding abortion (yes, I have personal experience with it, very complex situation) I feel that the state should not be using money from those who are religiously opposed to abortion for the purpose of helping someone else get one. The State should remain neutral- it should not prohibit, nor condone with tax dollars, the procedure.

Well guess what - I'm morally opposed to war and my tax dollars go there. I don't have a choice. What's the difference?

[Massive Lee]

It will stop your car, just like abortion will control birth.

And it is an extreme measure, that most people hope they won't have to face. BTW Next time you attend an HPDE, tell your instructor you intend to use guardrails and concrete walls as a way to control your speed... ;-)

[Ral]

honestly, while I have mixed views regarding abortion (yes, I have personal experience with it, very complex situation) I feel that the state should not be using money from those who are religiously opposed to abortion for the purpose of helping someone else get one. The State should remain neutral- it should not prohibit, nor condone with tax dollars, the procedure.

[jrhaile]

For once I agree with the Canadian...

[pureaudio]

Not at all. Do you really think a person who got raped wants to be reminded of it day after day by looking at the result of it? What if they can't or don't want to give birth? Does their being victim of a sexual crime strip them of the ability to choose? Absolutely not. I read exactly what s0urce wrote and it's a very common talking point. I was just amazed that you'd never heard it.

So what about the children of men who beat their wives? What about children of men who are chronic drug addicts? Do you think those kids constantly remind their mothers of being mistreated? Do you know anyone who has a child due to a rape? I do and guess what, you can't pick him out of a crowd and automatically know that his real "father" was a rapist. He is a normal kid, his mom still loves him and even her husband who is his father now loves him. They may have some inner hate for the child that nobody knows about but some how I don't think that is the case.

[Turf1600]

As much as hitting a wall is a way to control your speed.

It will stop your car, just like abortion will control birth.

[Massive Lee]

Abortion is still birth control

As much as hitting a wall is a way to control your speed.

[Turf1600]

[quote=Hallen;1928019]It's just you.

Except the case of rape, malformed fetus, or extreme health risk to the mother, yes, 100% of all other abortions are the direct result of irresponsibility. It is a choice to have sex. If you are not prepared to have children, then don't have sex. It's that simple..

As you said below, it's not going to happen. Humans aren't built that way. our sex drive is an adaptation that we can contribute our existence to.

Yes, I know that is completely unrealistic. That doesn't change the fact that it is irresponsible. Also, we make it seem like it isn't irresponsible if you are using some form of birth control. Well, good for you, that's a wise choice. But these things do fail. If you are not prepared to raise a child, don't have sex..

How do you feel about plan b?

I am not campaigning one way or the other on abortions. But an abortion is a BIG DEAL. It should never be taken lightly. It isn't the same as taking off a condom and flushing it down the toilet. It is terminating a life..

I guess at this point you must define life and where precisely it begins. As I said before, no spine, no care. Also, is a sprem penetrating an egg that different than rubbing one out in the toilet? What exactly changes fundamentally between the elapsed time? to me the difference is so moot and irrelevant that it's not worth thinking about. There is no gray area here, logically. Either you believe that every sperm is sacred and don't use birth control, or you do whatever you want and live with abortion when necessary. Maybe I'm just a black and white person, but I don't understand the inbetween area. Having that said, I don't believe in late term abortion. Rather, I wouldn't do it myself.

I don't have the facts, but I would hazard a guess that of all the abortions done in this country, maybe 1% fall into my "except" category. The rest are just irresponsible birth control..

By your definition of irresponsibility, yes. By the normal standard, no.

Things won't change with regards to people who shouldn't have kids having sex. I know what it's like to be 16 walking around with a permastiffy. Nothing said here will stop that. If abortion is what is needed, there should be some remorse associated with it. There should be emotional pain. There should be social stigma associated with it. The decision should be carefully considered. It's the real world and nothing comes for free. If after all of that, you still need to do it, then that's your choice.

Agreed. No one said it was easy.