Does anyone else feel hopeless about the oil well in the gulf?

[mrsleeve]

As promised

I'm sure that you have educated yourself, or at least let Glen Beck do it for you, but if you want people to listen to your points you should actually present them instead of just hint at them. Trying to make somebody look lazy or stupid just makes you look like an ass.

1 beck has done nothing more than mention the oil spill in passing. (yes I watch beck from time to time but not all that often) Sometimes making some one find the answer them selves is the best thing. Its called learning, did you teachers just give you the answers all the time????

This is true, and I might actually care what you think if you stated it as such. I still wouldn't agree with you, though, because you are comparing apples and oranges. The thin oil which we use in our cars and boats is hugely different from the viscous crude which is pouring into the gulf right now.

Um run off comes from every where parking lots, drive ways and yeah gas stations. But stations need to be inspected on a regular basis to make sure the tanks dont leak and get into the environment. ( I have a hazmat cert to be able to work on in ground tank abatement at some old gas station contamination sites)

Yes your right the oil we use is lighter than the crude, but with in a rather short time, oil will separate and the lighter oils will evap off, or sit on top, while the heavier portions sink to the bottom, or make up the tar balls. Hence the difference between sheen and slick.

Not to mention that it is greatly diluted by the rainwater which transports it from our gass stations to the rivers and then to the oceans.

UMMMM WTF you think it going to happen over a few weeks or months when you dump a couple 100k barrels of oil into 1.2*10^17 barrels of water (Estimated volume of the gulf of mexico) full of wave and current action to help mix it up????? Water the universal solvent, my friend The Solution to Pollution is Dilution. Oh a barrel is 42 gallons just so you the perspective.

Also, for those who argue that something like 40% of the oil (by mass) will evaporate withing a few days, you are neglecting the fact that what is left will be thicker and more damaging to wildlife than what was already there.

While all that is true and it sucks that it will happen. 1 its not the end of the world the animals will FUCK and make more little animals. 2 What happens when the lighter components evap off??? It makes what remains less buoyant and more likely to sink back to the bottom where there is more oil eating bacteria

And (back to the "drop in the bucket argument"), that statement is hyperbole of already misconstrued facts. It is believed that around 1700 barrels of crude oil seep into the oceans within the United States daily from natural sources. That oil is not located in one place, while the roughly 15,000 barrels coming from the Horizon spill every day is. If you can't see the difference there, then maybe you will when you hear that BP's CEO said himself that a rate of 60,000 barrels per day is possible.

Please see the math problem I gave you above to put your hyperbole into perspective. Still a drop in the bucket compared to all the other sources of petrol contamination both natural and man made. Into an even larger drum of Water.

I will not and have not argued about the issue being it just a little too concentrated with this situation. Accidents happen, just the way it is. It sucks, and I wont deny that. I dont like the fact that this has happened anymore the Loaf does. The fact still remains that it can happen and sometimes will. Now if there were short cuts taken, or safety procedures not followed throw the book at those responsible. I have a theory like I said but will wait till there is some HARD info to back it up ( no its not a tinfoil hat thing)

[payney8]

i like you

[e30e]

BP oil has killed Nemo! I hate BP, Nemo's dad and blue fish friend were looking for him!

[psyber_0ptix]

Wonder what kind of pressures the weight of the water generates at a mile depth...gotta be big, y'know?

At sea level, you have one atmosphere of pressure(14.7 psi). Every 33 ft that you descend adds another atmosphere of pressure. Therefore 1000 ft/33 ft=30.30 atm. Now add the one atmosphere at the surface to get 45 atm of pressure at 1000 ft depth. Also, 45 atm times 14.7 psi per atm of pressure equals 661.5 psi.

if using gauge pressure 0psi at surface, then you just multiply the spegific weight of sea water by the depth. Assuming incompressability and neglecting oil plumes present....

P=(gamma)(depth)

gamma = 64 lbf/ft^3
(if) depth = 1 mile == 5,280 ft

P(gauge) = 64*5280 lbf/ft^2 *(1ft^2/12^2 in^2) = 2346.67 lbf/in^2

So pressure at ocean floor is 2346.67 psi (similar to the pressure calculated on first page)....now imagine the pressure of the oil gushing out of the pipe at 180mph.

Gotta whip out bernoulli's equation for that one.

[b*saint]

6800 psi I heard.

[psyber_0ptix]

of what, oil pressure gushing out or at the gulf floor?

whats the true depth of this leak?

[structured]

1 beck has done nothing more than mention the oil spill in passing. (yes I watch beck from time to time but not all that often) Sometimes making some one find the answer them selves is the best thing. Its called learning, did you teachers just give you the answers all the time????

The Beck comment wasn't directed at you.

Um run off comes from every where parking lots, drive ways and yeah gas stations. But stations need to be inspected on a regular basis to make sure the tanks dont leak and get into the environment. ( I have a hazmat cert to be able to work on in ground tank abatement at some old gas station contamination sites)

Yes your right the oil we use is lighter than the crude, but with in a rather short time, oil will separate and the lighter oils will evap off, or sit on top, while the heavier portions sink to the bottom, or make up the tar balls. Hence the difference between sheen and slick.

I don't see how any of this contrdicts what I said.

UMMMM WTF you think it going to happen over a few weeks or months when you dump a couple 100k barrels of oil into 1.2*10^17 barrels of water (Estimated volume of the gulf of mexico) full of wave and current action to help mix it up????? Water the universal solvent, my friend The Solution to Pollution is Dilution. Oh a barrel is 42 gallons just so you the perspective.

While all that is true and it sucks that it will happen. 1 its not the end of the world the animals will FUCK and make more little animals. 2 What happens when the lighter components evap off??? It makes what remains less buoyant and more likely to sink back to the bottom where there is more oil eating bacteria

Don't be a wise-ass, I am well aware of how many gallons are in a barrel. Also, you still haven't contradicted my point. It was stated several times that the leak was a drop compared to the natural leaks in the area. I presented data to contradict that. You can't just say that there is a lot of water in the gulf and it will all mix up perfectly. That won't happen. This stuff is being blown directly at the breeding grounds of something like 80% of our country's waterfoul. And during mating season I might add. So, no, they won't be doing very much fucking.

As for sinking to the bottom, you are partially correct.. much of the heavy stuff that sinks will be decomposed by bacteria.. unfortunately, the biproduct of that process could suffocate the wildlife.. it doesn't just magically disappear.

Please see the math problem I gave you above to put your hyperbole into perspective. Still a drop in the bucket compared to all the other sources of petrol contamination both natural and man made. Into an even larger Bucket of Water.

Again, your argument doesn't hold up. The entire ocean doesn't distribute its contaminants perfectly throughout the globe. There are tides and currents which could keep this stuff concentrated until it hits land..

I will not and have not argued about the issue being it just a little too concentrated with this situation. Accidents happen, just the way it is. It sucks, and I wont deny that. I dont like the fact that this has happened anymore the Loaf does. The fact still remains that it can happen and sometimes will. Now if there were short cuts taken, or safety procedures not followed throw the book at those responsible. I have a theory like I said but will wait till there is some HARD info to back it up ( no its not a tinfoil hat thing)

The more I read your comments, the more I think that we agree on the facts, just have a fundamental difference in values. I can respect that. At least you are informed before making a descision.

[b*saint]

of what, oil pressure gushing out or at the gulf floor?

whats the true depth of this leak?

Oil pressure in your E30.

[mrsleeve]

I said little Holes there structured, just enough to let the hot air out.

The environment and the oil/gas industry are both important to me. One is where I spend much free time, the other is what keeps food on the table. clothes on my back and roof over my head.

We have a fundamental agreement on FACT and realities of the situation. I just give Nature much more credit for being able to take care of its self even when we fuck up. I am by no means a GREENIE or a Enviro-waffleswaffleswaffleswaffles-bag, far from it, I think its along the lines of a dog does not shit where it eats kinda thing.

Yes its bad RIGHT NOW, A year from now, it will still suck and maybe even 2 years. In 3 years it will be ehhh I can still see where bad shit has happened here. In 5 it will be nothing more than a distant memory other than a few reminders scattered about. That certainly does not mean that steps to improve the system to keep things like this from happening should not be taken, And conversely We should NOT stop the exploration and exploitation of resources because something might happen. Thats akin to never leaving your bed because you might slip in the shower, or might get into a car crash, or might get shanked over you lunch money by a crazy tweeker jonesing for a fix . (all of which have greater chance of happening than this happening again)

You guys are aware that ours is not the only Oil leak into a ecologically sensitive area aren't you. Or have the talking heads and moron news casters convinced you all that ONLY the USA Pollutes and produces oil????

[structured]

I said little Holes there structured, just enough to let the hot air out.

The environment and the oil/gas industry are both important to me. One is where I spend much free time, the other is what keeps food on the table. clothes on my back and roof over my head.

We have a fundamental agreement on FACT and realities of the situation. I just give Nature much more credit for being able to take care of its self even when we fuck up. I am by no means a GREENIE or a Enviro-waffleswaffleswaffleswaffles-bag, far from it, I think its along the lines of a dog does not shit where it eats kinda thing.

Yes its bad RIGHT NOW, A year from now, it will still suck and maybe even 2 years. In 3 years it will be ehhh I can still see where bad shit has happened here. In 5 it will be nothing more than a distant memory other than a few reminders scattered about. That certainly does not mean that steps to improve the system to keep things like this from happening should not be taken, And conversely We should NOT stop the exploration and exploitation of resources because something might happen. Thats akin to never leaving your bed because you might slip in the shower, or might get into a car crash, or might get shanked over you lunch money by a crazy tweeker jonesing for a fix . (all of which have greater chance of happening than this happening again)

You guys are aware that ours is not the only Oil leak into a ecologically sensitive area aren't you. Or have the talking heads and moron news casters convinced you all that ONLY the USA Pollutes and produces oil????

You're right, it is unlikely that this will happen again in the near future. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't explore our natural resources. I just think that there could have been, and in the future there should be, more precautions taken and more planning performed to prevent and mitigate an incident like this. That goes for both BP (and other oil companies) and our government who, whether you guys like it or not, is there to protect us.

And no, I don't think that the US is the only country that pollutes and produces oil. I have never said that. Don't try and turn my comments into me being un-American. I do, however, think that if we want to judge the actions of others we should first lead by example.

Edit:

Also, before you make claims that the oil is all going to disappear or be decomposed in only a few years and that the animals will just fuck their way through this, you might want to do a little reading to better inform yourself.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=environmental-effects-of

http://arcticcircle.uconn.edu/SEEJ/Alaska/miller2.htm

[psyber_0ptix]

Oil pressure in your E30.

Probably why my M42 runs like garbage

on topic:
looks like the big scissors worked

[europeanplates]

Is it just me or did they cut this right above a flange that could be un bolted and then bolt a new pipe on??? I know working at those depths is tough but that makes no sense to me!

Ty

[mrsleeve]

Is it just me or did they cut this right above a flange that could be un bolted and then bolt a new pipe on??? I know working at those depths is tough but that makes no sense to me!

Ty

you do have some idea what those are torqued to right. Lets just say you need a hammer to get them lose.

Also the Ring gasket would never be able to be put back into place, there for never ever make a seal again. it would be virtually just as bad a leak with out the gasket as it is now.

[psyber_0ptix]

I think that's the point... except there's too much pressure. they want to be able to affix a cap and pump some of the mix into awaiting ships while we wait for relief wells to be finished.

edit: mrsleeve beat me to it

[Farbin Kaiber]

To be honest, I've had like 700 random ideas about how to solve this, but I'm not gonna pull a James Cameron or any other random celebrity move and try to tell these guys how to do their job, I think that for the most part, if an uneducated in the field person has had an "idea", the engineers already discounted those thoughts back on day two.