E10-Fuel soon E12

[briansjacobs]

Talking with a friend the other day that is an Ethanol trader, he told me one thing we should expect from this big spill in the gulf is an increase in the amount of ethanol into our fuel supply. We are currently blending 10% into our fuel supply, there is a push from the lobbies to go to 15% but it will more than likely end up at 12%. The EPA only test the environmental effects of the fuel changes and does not consider the long term afftects on our engines that were not designed to run on E10.

interesting

[Kershaw]

yaaay less mpg!

[briansjacobs]

another 2% should not really effect fuel economy.

[Dominic49]

2% worse economy?

[briansjacobs]

the way I was told is there should not be a noticable change in fuel economy, my concerns were more about the long term effects of the ethanol on our internals.

[kylekrueger]

Not trying to be confrontational I'm just curious, but how does the ethanol affect engine internals. Sorry its a bit off topic.

[Sagaris]

Ethanol makes me effin-lol

I can feel a noticable decrease in performance and mileage with ethanol fuels. I have no choice but to buy E-10 since I moved to the midwest. I bought an electric lawnmower because I am sick of the extra maintenance (long-term storage preparations and more frequent carb cleaning) required for small gas engines that run ethanol fuels.

I wish it would go away.

[5KWattson]

just dump like 2 cans of oct booster in each tank ROFL

[AndrewBird]

Ethanol is higher octane than gasoline, so with the right tuning, you can actually get more HP out of it. It does put out less BTU's per volume than gasoline though, which does mean less MPG.

[briansjacobs]

Not trying to be confrontational I'm just curious, but how does the ethanol affect engine internals. Sorry its a bit off topic.

not off topic at all, it is actually very on topic. Ethanol is highly corrosive and it will cause premature wear around the rings and valves.

[Restoman]

Ethanol makes me effin-lol

I can feel a noticable decrease in performance and mileage with ethanol fuels. I have no choice but to buy E-10 since I moved to the midwest. I bought an electric lawnmower because I am sick of the extra maintenance (long-term storage preparations and more frequent carb cleaning) required for small gas engines that run ethanol fuels.

I wish it would go away.

Look for 40 or 50 fuel for your smaller 2 strokes. I refuse to use electric trimmers. The fuel starts off with non-ethanol fuel and then mixes the 2 stroke oil in. Good stuff.

[BeirBrennerE30]

not off topic at all, it is actually very on topic. Ethanol is highly corrosive and it will cause premature wear around the rings and valves.

this!!! it eats non-silicone rubber and aluminum... so rubber fuel lines, intakes, aluminum heads etc. It sucks unless you have an engine designed for it. But if you design for it you can get mor epower.

[mrsleeve]

The only reason the GOVT is considering this, is because the Ethanol industry is lobbying hard for it to use up current supply that is just sitting. because they have too much supply there for they are not making any money on it (laws of supply and demand) thanks to a bumper corn crop in last year, and what is shaping up to be another really good growing season this year. There are ethanol plants that are brand new built with our tax dollars that are now sitting mothballed and have never run a single bushel of corn, and we are still building more of them.

You see if people liked e85 they would be going out and buying the flex fuel vehicles that support the use of either fuel type, they are nothing new GM has been pumping them out in most models since 04-05. Once they have those engines they would be buying the e85 fuel. Most people I have talked to dont like the e85 because its not that much cheaper than the normal gas ( even though its production has been subsidized, the stations get a tax break for selling the shit and you dont pay as much in taxes per gallon as petrol) , and the mileage and power is down when you are burring it, so they dont use it and just buy normal gas.

Yes the free market at work here people and then, we are going to have the govt step in and try to steer the markets via legislation.

By law right now you are correct that gas can only be blended at up to 10% ethanol (this does not mean its 10% it could be 5% or 0%) and has been this way for quite some time. you can still get 100% petrol in many places but even then you never know it because there is nothing that says stations must disclose the blending percentages.

The EPA and the feds dont give a fuck if the new mandates burn up all our old engines. It would just get more of those evil old clunkers off the roads, with out having to bribe us to buy new cars with hand outs. It would accomplish the goals to get every one ot go out and buy a new car.

This is not a good thing. The govt has created this glut of supply in the ethanol and now is going to try and stick us with it weather we want it or not and to be dammed with the consequences, on engines that are not set up to run any ethanol blends let alone 15%. this is why its more likely to be 12% but still nothing more than the govt trying to steer the markets in the direction that furthers the agenda.

Not to mention the fact that ethanol eats fuel systems and heads and all kinds of other shit. Sure due to the octane you can make more power with it (racers have know this for 70 years) but you dont get near the amount of work out of an equal amount of petrol, so really with increased energy use to make ethanol, the lesser amount of work gotten outta the product compared to equal amount petrol production. It costs us all more, because ethanol is subsidized by you guessed it, US the taxpayers. You really want to pay more for you gas in the long run they support this shit.

Edit: This BP debockel is going to be used to push all kinds of energy bills and environmental bills through and prolly some nice new hefty taxes. They will try and get as much "mileage" as they can out of all the fuel oil in the gulf.

[McGyver]

doesnt ethanol also burn at a higher temp than petrol and cause some sort of heat damage to the engine?

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Yup combustion temps are much higher.