Interesting view of Euro vs Jap cars

[Stanley Rockefeller]

While reviewing some reviews of a late 80's 944 on Carsurvey.org, I stumbled across a review where someone claimed that owning the porsche was worse than owning a Honda, and that they would be going back to a Honda as soon as they could be rid of it.


The following comment was in response to the review:

"Having owned a LOT of Honda's, Volvo's, Mercedes Benz's and now a Porsche 944 your comment is completely without merit. A Honda is a very simple car designed around a price tag. My very last Honda a brand new 2002 Honda Accord Coupe suffered a complete transmission failure at 17,000 miles and was VERY cheaply assembled in comparison to the older Honda's that I owned.

Honda's are great cars but are completely disposable. European cars last FOREVER with parts and mechanical assistance readily available. At about 200K a Honda's life is completely over as the cost to repair the car completely outweighs its usefulness and resale. Additionally many Japanese car makers stop producing parts once a model reaches 10 years old. Many European cars retain resale value above and beyond the 200k mark and owners who love their cars lavish them with mechanical service. European car companies keep parts available for their cars for a very long time. If you walk up to any Mercedes Benz service counter, you can order parts on ANY car they ever made. Older and more rare models have special Mercedes Benz Classic parts advisers for having parts custom made.

The key here is love. Its easy to love a Porsche 944. Falling in love with a cheap piece of commodity produced plastic is kind of difficult. Japanese car owners don't love their cars so when they break they go in the garbage can. European car owners love their cars and are willing to pay anything to keep them going forever.

If you can't afford the repair bills then buy Japanese. If you do the math like many European owners have, you realize that the cost of financing, insurance, depreciation and getting a new car every 5 years costs much more than buying a well made car and spending the money to keep it running."



Couldn't have said it any better myself

[Sagaris]

It isn't quite fair to compare a car built for driving enthusiasts with one for utilitarian use. The Honda will certainly be built to a price, that is one of the goals of the car, economical transportation.


I do understand where the guy is trying to go with the German vs. Japanese thing though. Just not with comparing 944's to Accords.

[dlmpsy]

It is interesting to note that some European cars now have "lifetime" fluids, and a maintenance schedule that is very different in comparison to our beloved E30's. Maintenance costs were factors in purchasing these cars, now maintenace is included "free" for x amount of miles/years. Oddly enough, this is about the time that lifetime fluids became available, and oil changes after several thousands of miles. In a nutshell, many of the newer BMW's aren't maintained as well as in the past, and as a result are not "holding-up" as well...according to a very good, reputable mechanic in my area.

[z31maniac]

^It's all about selling the car with a "no cost maintenance plan" to entice people over the hurdle of "expensive to maintain Euro car."

[Mlarsen]

I'm sorry but, that was probably the dumbest comparison ever. He forgot to mention that transmission is covered under the warranty with a new updated transmission. I work at Honda repair shop and to say that a Honda is a "disposable vehicle" is ridiculous . They are probably the most simple and dependable vehicle you could buy. A Honda accord may not be as fun to drive or own as a Porsche would. But, my customers fucking love there Hondas and would never even think to buy anything else.

[m73m95]

Being a 944 owner, I can say that anyone who owns one for more than a few years, is crazy :)

The point of the article is true. The maintenance costs of the 944 are cheaper than the payment of a new car. That is only one thing to consider though.

Most German cars (especially 80's models) almost require you to own a second car (probably a Honda), to make sure you can get to work on days when it decides it would rather stay home, and wait to be disassembled, and reassembled again.

Also, I'm sure the only reason my 944 is cheaper than the payment of a new car, is because I do all the work myself. If I had to have a shop to the repair work, I would have to live in the car.


Having said all of that....I wouldn't trade my car for the world! Its become an obsession. I'm at the point now that I work on it for fun! Its full of my blood, sweat and tears (Mostly blood). Its unique. Its a blast to drive...and most of all, ITS MINE!


That, I think, is the ultimate difference. Money isn't really the issue with cars. Its what kind of person you are. Honda people don't like cars. Cars are a way to get places, so they buy one you can weld the hood shut on. Even if it does break down, it has a warranty, so its fixed for free... European car people (with older cars. Newer euro car people use them as a status symbol) love their cars. They are more than transportation. They are a mechanical extension of themselves. I'm sure you all understand that. The average person would NEVER have an old car, much less a German car.

[ButtJuice]

. I'm at the point now that I work on it for fun!

[emoshun]

This makes me want an e30 even more now, as my daily LS400 is just that.

A comfortable/reliable daily to get from A to B.

[nando]

Most German cars (especially 80's models) almost require you to own a second car (probably a Honda), to make sure you can get to work on days when it decides it would rather stay home, and wait to be disassembled, and reassembled again.

I haven't found this to be true at all.

I do think most Japanese cars are somewhat disposable though. They aren't meant to be fixed - they are supposed to be driven a couple hundred thousand miles with minimal maintenance and few parts replacements. When something big finally does go wrong, the car is basically done. How many 1980's hondas do you still see? hell, even 1990s? Now how many do you see that don't have body kits falling off them, or all matching panels?

[m73m95]

I haven't found this to be true at all.

I do think most Japanese cars are somewhat disposable though. They aren't meant to be fixed - they are supposed to be driven a couple hundred thousand miles with minimal maintenance and few parts replacements. When something big finally does go wrong, the car is basically done. How many 1980's hondas do you still see? hell, even 1990s? Now how many do you see that don't have body kits falling off them, or all matching panels?

No no, that is exactly true. They are made to drive until they wear out, then you go get another one. The people that own one want that. A car is just a tool for their life. Its not a part of their lives, like our cars are.


I'm not saying our cars aren't made as well, either...because that is obviously not the case with so many of them still around. They are getting older, so they do tend to break more, just because 20 year old mechanical parts do that. And, even with the manufacturers still making the parts, they have to be accessible. The Porsche dealer here in Vegas has never even heard of a 944. They pretend they don't exist. My parts all come from mail order vendors, so when something does happen on my car, its down at least a day, before I can get parts.

Its not the cars that are the subject in the OP's article. Its the people. Just as it said, its hard to fall in love with a commodity produced piece of plastic... People don't love Hondas. Our cars live on only because of people like us. We love them.

[mikeedler]

shit, the German build BMWs and co. to be disposable. 80% of our customers are leasing and every few years the cars are traded out.

I personally see VW as the euro Honda. a more affordable car for the masses.

I serviced a 1997 Z3 today at work, the inspection 1 included disassembling the brakes, cleaning them and reassembly---WOW, not on the newer crap!

[TexasTerp]

There are the masses who "love" their honda's: they are great cars, nice, solid daily drivers for 150k and then you get a newer one with some bells and whistles. This describes the majority of people who buys cars.

Then there are those like us, who really LOVE their cars. Who live and breathe driving, wrenching and the clean lines of their cars. those that talk to them and treat them as if they were a person. you spend your time ordering parts and working long nights in the garage because it's a part of you. We're obsessed, and for good reason! We're enthusiasts, it's in our blood.

A porsche 944 is for an enthusiast, a honda is for a regular person. Regular people should not own enthusiast cars - cuz then you get responses like the the one in the review.

[SimplyDope]

There are the masses who "love" their honda's: they are great cars, nice, solid daily drivers for 150k and then you get a newer one with some bells and whistles. This describes the majority of people who buys cars.

Then there are those like us, who really LOVE their cars. Who live and breathe driving, wrenching and the clean lines of their cars. those that talk to them and treat them as if they were a person. you spend your time ordering parts and working long nights in the garage because it's a part of you. We're obsessed, and for good reason! We're enthusiasts, it's in our blood.

A porsche 944 is for an enthusiast, a honda is for a regular person. Regular people should not own enthusiast cars - cuz then you get responses like the the one in the review.

Almost brought tears to my eyes. Very much spot-on.

[HarryPotter]

I haven't found this to be true at all.

I do think most Japanese cars are somewhat disposable though. They aren't meant to be fixed - they are supposed to be driven a couple hundred thousand miles with minimal maintenance and few parts replacements. When something big finally does go wrong, the car is basically done. How many 1980's hondas do you still see? hell, even 1990s? Now how many do you see that don't have body kits falling off them, or all matching panels?

I agree, my e30 is my main car, I've had it for a little over two years now and it fires up and runs smooth as silk every day. With occasional maintenance of course. Granted I haven't touched anything in probably 15k miles. Last major thing I did was change the timing belt and water pump.

[llll1l1ll]

I personally see VW as the euro Honda. a more affordable car for the masses.

Doesn't Volkswagen literally translate to "people's car" or a car for the masses? Isn't that the original idea behind the first developments of VW?