Is this anyone on the forum? E30 fatal accident.

[Peterkaczynski]

wow so sorry to hear this

[etxxz]

both those dudes look like trash. they were driving with crap and trash on the bed. just out of common sense and general principle, you see two dudes like that driving, you run their plates. I don't care if they were wearing their seatbelts, driving respectfully and obeying the law. Even if i saw them walking around walmart i would know, these dudes probably don't do bad stuff. look at the mugshot of the one dude with tattoos of tears and a what the hell is on his chin. Now i wanna punch them in the face even more..! pardon the hate.. RIP e30 guy.. hope wasn't anyone on here, but by the looks of the car and age, i guarantee he was a fellow r3ver. God knows what they were up to to be running cellphone or not. They were both parolees... now the story starts to unravel..

[Pantless Spency]

wow i wonder if der affe knows the dude....

[ohthejosh]

Victim was a man. He has been identified.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/27/BAAI1LN747.DTL

(10-27) 12:29 PDT CONCORD -- A man who was killed when a pickup truck with two parolees on board crashed into his BMW during a police chase in Concord was identified today as a 46-year-old resident of Flagstaff, Ariz.
Joseph Dale Smith was driving his 1985 BMW on Solano Way near Highway 242 when he was struck by a white pickup truck driven by 25-year-old parolee Mauro Gutierrez of Concord, police said.
Gutierrez was fleeing from a Concord officer who had tried to stop him for taking on a cell phone, said police Lt. Darrell Graham.
Gutierrez tried to run away after the crash but was soon arrested, police said. He was booked on suspicion of vehicular manslaughter, evading arrest, vehicle theft and being a felon in possession of a firearm, police said. A gun was allegedly found in the truck.
A passenger, Joshua Simmons, 24, of Concord was also taken into custody. He is also a parolee, police said. Both are being held without bail.

[mrsleeve]

Again, you all assume that the police found nothing else when they ran the plates.

How do you know that they didn't find multiple arrest warrants or something of that nature? People dont typically run over a fucking cell phone ticket, so I presume they were doing something illegal and didn't want to be caught. If they run, they've just committed a larger crime than the phone ticket.

Your point is semantics at best. While guy had reason to RUN. If there was not a pointless law passed solely to generate revenue (You know cell phone laws, seat belt laws, ect...) were not in place then the cop would not have been going after him causing the dude to run right???


Like I said the cop is not at fault 1 bit, I am not saying that, at all, the guy who ran is, one bad decision after another, but I trust my point has been made.

[dirty thirty]

Wow rip hate to loose a good enthusiast

[Ryan Stewart]

My apologies sir. I did not intend to insult your intelligence. However I must point out that I never made mention of anybody, police or otherwise "doing +110 thru school zones with guns blazing" oh yeah, "anymore"???. Your assumption is way over the top. I only mentioned high speed.

Police pursuits have stayed the same since cowboys and indians. Loss of innocent life. can I make myself any clearer, INNOCENT LIFE.

In the days of cowboys and indians they were going full tilt on horseback shooting at each other along the way regardless of where they were. You are now backpedaling, which is fine if you at least admit that your original post was full of ignorance and BS.

I addressed the innocent loss of life easily, its the liability of tweedle dee and tweedle dumb.

Hopefully the truck driver will face the appropriate charges and they can get the passenger with nearly the same thing.

I wish they would but it doesnt look like they are going to pursue it. Any passenger should be considered a willing accomplice (just like how if two douches rob a store and one douche gets shot by the owner then douche two gets manslaughter for creating the situation.

I dont care if you are my brother, if you decide to run from the cops with me in the car youd better expect to be punched in the throat as I pop the fucker into neutral. The drivers warrants arent my problem.

[CabrioPunk]

The driver has a duty to stop. He did not. Police have a right and duty to pursue; this is not a violation of the 4th Amendment's test of reasonable search and, in this case, seizure.

The Supreme Court has already ruled on these. The case law s there. To go further, the police officer - barring some off the wall behavior which likely would have already been reported by the media - is not civilly responsible under the 14th. Nor would the agency, chief, etc.

Again, case law. Not well "I wouldn't have done that"... that's why you are not a hard charging cop out there patrolling.. because you wouldn't. So you jest then that cell phone laws are real "hardcharging"... no. I will say this, a lot of productive traffic stops start with pretty small things.. light out, no seat belt and yes, even cell phone use. The old Timothy McVeigh idea... he was captured how.. a traffic stop. Amazing.

Hopefully the truck driver will face the appropriate charges and they can get the passenger with nearly the same thing.

[JTDay]

That's horrible. Tomorrow is never a guarantee. The next minute for that matter. Hopefully vehicular homicide will be attached to the criminals charges.

[alexw]

I'm exchanging the idea that unmarked, uninformed police officers are not available in every police department. And I'll be willing to bet that if you read over your local police department's policy on pursuits it would have something about unmarked units in active pursuits. Just a guess.

And don't try and lecture me about not addressing the innocent loss of life. Are they going to hear it if I post it on R3v? And for what it's worth, I never called anyone any names, besides "pal". After all, thats what we all are, no?

[TimKninja]

All points well taken, but lets try this again.

Computers have evolved in the last 10 years.

Cars have evolved in the last 10 years.

Cell phones have evolved in the last 10 years.

Governments have evolved in the last 10 years.

Police pursuits have stayed the same since cowboys and indians. Loss of innocent life. can I make myself any clearer, INNOCENT LIFE.

So lets try this. Run a tag. It comes back hot. Do not pursue. Radio for surveillance of the vehicle thru an unmarked car. At some point the car has to stop. Its gotta stop. Traffic light, beer run, hot chicks, whatever. Block that car in at 4 points and throw down. No need for 100 mile an hour chases no matter what the perp has done. We are talking about INNOCENT LIFE. Kids going to school, wife out shopping, the guy mowing his lawn. Actually this kind of arrest works when serving an arrest at a residence. You know the perp is there. Wait for his ass to get in his car and drives sooner or later to an area where there is not much traffic. Again pin the car in at all for corners. Its better than kicking the door down at a house that may or may not have kids living in there and having a fire fight. Its just simple and easy.

Criminals think about getting away, cops think about catching up. NOBODY thought about that lady who was killed.

The Updated artical said it was a SHORT PURSUIT. Not a long drawn out high speed pursuit.

The probably didnt pursue him for more then a minute before the incident happend. Which wasnt the police officers fault. If it was getting out of hand they would of probably called it off.

This is really really terrible. These dirtbags were probably Scumbag drug dealers/Gang members.

RIP to a fellow E30 owner.

[g.ruff561]

My apologies sir. I did not intend to insult your intelligence. However I must point out that I never made mention of anybody, police or otherwise "doing +110 thru school zones with guns blazing" oh yeah, "anymore"???. Your assumption is way over the top. I only mentioned high speed. If the speed limit is 35 and you are driving 50. That is high speed. If the speed limit is 55 and you are doing 80, that is high speed. For anybody. You, me, cops, robbers. I never faulted the cops for hitting anyone nor am I disagreeing with you about whose fault the accident was.

I am speaking of the method of pursuit. Again you are taking this waaay toooo personal. I have been a "moron" for a long time so forgive my failures. I was thinking this was an exchange of ideas, not an argument. Your call. The police are NOT responsible for a guy fleeing. They ARE responsible for the method of pursuit. Unmarked and plain clothes cops can follow without pursuit. And do a 4 point pin without being reconized as cops. Simple easy. Just as efficient with no loss of life unless the perp whats to resist with his car pinned on each corner and weapons drawn down on him from four directions. No where to go but down, as in hell.

Funny, not one time have you addressed the innocent loss of life. I tell you what. I'm caught, you got me. you win. Can we stop this now and get back to praising the E30 nation and saying a silent prayer for the deceased woman.

Be blessed........................Peace

[alexw]

All points well taken, but lets try this again.

Computers have evolved in the last 10 years.

Cars have evolved in the last 10 years.

Cell phones have evolved in the last 10 years.

Governments have evolved in the last 10 years.

Police pursuits have stayed the same since cowboys and indians. Loss of innocent life. can I make myself any clearer, INNOCENT LIFE.

So lets try this. Run a tag. It comes back hot. Do not pursue. Radio for surveillance of the vehicle thru an unmarked car. At some point the car has to stop. Its gotta stop. Traffic light, beer run, hot chicks, whatever. Block that car in at 4 points and throw down. No need for 100 mile an hour chases no matter what the perp has done. We are talking about INNOCENT LIFE. Kids going to school, wife out shopping, the guy mowing his lawn. Actually this kind of arrest works when serving an arrest at a residence. You know the perp is there. Wait for his ass to get in his car and drives sooner or later to an area where there is not much traffic. Again pin the car in at all for corners. Its better than kicking the door down at a house that may or may not have kids living in there and having a fire fight. Its just simple and easy.

Criminals think about getting away, cops think about catching up. NOBODY thought about that lady who was killed.

I dont say fuck the cops, I just think cops can build a better mouse trap. I want my family and friends home safe every night.
And again RIP to the woman who was killed.

Be blessed............................

Where do you get your info on police tactics within the last ten + years?

I'm not even going to dive into this four point block in and the impracticality due to logistics and tactics... BUT to feed the fire just a bit, as each of these marked police cars show up, do you not expect the suspect to increase speed even more? And as for the unmarked squad, does every police agency have an unmarked squad in daily rotation?

Or perhaps you're expecting the police to wait for the suspect to go into their house, and the police surround the house until they can surprise the suspect as he/she exits! That might work, except you're assigning what 4 + officers (one for each corner?) on one assignment when, as you said, your family and friends need to be kept safe as well. So while those officers are waiting for someone to exit the house, there is less police on the streets responding to other calls.

You know what would be great? If we had a helicopter with a big freaking magnet and we could just fly above the car and pull it right off the road and into the air!

Keep dreaming pal.

[Ryan Stewart]

Police pursuits have stayed the same since cowboys and indians. Loss of innocent life. can I make myself any clearer, INNOCENT LIFE.

You OBVIOUSLY have no idea regarding police pursuits or even seen one on TV in the last 20 years. They are hardly doing 110+ through school zones with guns blazing anymore.

A year or two ago they invented these two cool things. Radio systems and helicopters. Since then urban police forces have modified their tactics considerably. Ever hear the saying, "you cant outrun a radio?" Yeah, the police have too.

And, since it wasn't actually a cop that hit anyone, the fault for this death sits squarely on the shoulders of the pieces of shit in the truck. Im not a fan of police myself (too many bad experiences despite not being a criminal) but only a moron could argue that the police are responsible for a guy fleeing. Even if they had given up chase the guy wouldnt immediately go, "well, he stopped so I guess I can cruise to QT and get a big gulp now." No, he is going to keep hauling ass until he feels he is out of sight.

As for the ninja shit you are suggesting. How the hell do you think there are going to be 4 cop cars ready to pounce the moment he stops for any reason? Yeah, they would have to be FOLLOWING HIM. He ran from one cop, what happens when he sees 4?

[g.ruff561]

All points well taken, but lets try this again.

Computers have evolved in the last 10 years.

Cars have evolved in the last 10 years.

Cell phones have evolved in the last 10 years.

Governments have evolved in the last 10 years.

Police pursuits have stayed the same since cowboys and indians. Loss of innocent life. can I make myself any clearer, INNOCENT LIFE.

So lets try this. Run a tag. It comes back hot. Do not pursue. Radio for surveillance of the vehicle thru an unmarked car. At some point the car has to stop. Its gotta stop. Traffic light, beer run, hot chicks, whatever. Block that car in at 4 points and throw down. No need for 100 mile an hour chases no matter what the perp has done. We are talking about INNOCENT LIFE. Kids going to school, wife out shopping, the guy mowing his lawn. Actually this kind of arrest works when serving an arrest at a residence. You know the perp is there. Wait for his ass to get in his car and drives sooner or later to an area where there is not much traffic. Again pin the car in at all for corners. Its better than kicking the door down at a house that may or may not have kids living in there and having a fire fight. Its just simple and easy.

Criminals think about getting away, cops think about catching up. NOBODY thought about that lady who was killed.

I dont say fuck the cops, I just think cops can build a better mouse trap. I want my family and friends home safe every night.
And again RIP to the woman who was killed.

Be blessed............................