Would an F20C fit into an E30?

[Farbin Kaiber]

I hope you are kidding. The K-series is a FWD engine.

REALLY?

[Wishno87]

Lol thanks for the input 'Toes.

[Mr. Tasty]

I'm thinking K20/24 hybrid, much more potential for a lot less money

I hope you are kidding. The K-series is a FWD engine.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Thank you!^


I couldn't formulate a response that wouldn't hurt feelings to his post. What's next a suggestion of a 22r swap?

[trackjunkie21]

KA24 turbo would be much better.. CHEAP. Just saw one with a t28 pushing 230WHP yesterday

Get out of here with that shit, because putting an old SOHC truck motor in an e30 is a good idea.

[Emre]

You're referring to the link where the F20C with trans weighs 460 lbs vs the LS1 with trans which weighs a ridiculous 627 lbs? That's a huge difference in weight as far as engines are concerned.

I don't know what link you're referring to, and I never said anything about an LS1. I didn't say an F20C was heavy; I said it wasn't as light as you might think.

I had seriously considered this swap in 2007 or 2008 and spent a lot of time researching it. This is from memory, so don't quote me on specific numbers. But a stripped (no accessories, flywheel, intake, etc.) F20C engine alone weighs around 210 lbs, compared to 180 lbs for an M10 or 250 lbs for an M20 in similar condition. So it sounds pretty good, right? You figure when all is said and done, the compete swap should come in at around the weight of an S14.

But it turns out all the other stuff weighs a lot more than you'd expect. The F20C complete with tranny, flywheel, intake, and accessories ends up being around the same (or maybe a tiny bit more) than an M20. In the neighborhood of 470 lbs. Again, don't quote me on the exact number, but it's in that ballpark.

Anyway, none of this really matters for the simple fact that it doesn't fit in an E30 engine bay! At least not without major surgery. Spend a few minutes (as we did) with a tape measure and an S2000 and E30 side-by-side and it'll be obvious why.

[E30 Wagen]

Well, how much would a S14 rebuild with some mods cost, and what are some typical rwhp numbers it would dyno?

[5Toes]

SR20 is way better, though compared to a KA24, it is not worth it

[Victell]

If i was to do an LS1 swap, I'd use a beefed up T5 trans (world class) instead of the T56. 75 pounds vs 135, respectively.

[e30e]

I don't get why everyone thinks the LS1 is light.
It is heavy. Heavier than the m20, m30, m5x/s5x, n5x, s54, even the DOHC v8 m60!



You're referring to the link where the F20C with trans weighs 460 lbs vs the LS1 with trans which weighs a ridiculous 627 lbs? That's a huge difference in weight as far as engines are concerned.

Even the heavy s54 weighs less than the ls1 - even with assuming that the ls1 transmission in that example weighs 100 lbs which is much more than the getrag and zf transmissions we use.

Lets assume the F20C transmission weighs the same as the getrag260 which probably isin't very far off.. The engine weighed above would then come in at at about the weight of the m54, while being shorter and sitting farther back in the engine bay.

How easy does the fc20 make 400 hp again, 150 lbs is nothing when you compare hp numbers. You don't have to use the t56 tranny which is why the combo is so heavy, you use it because t56 is bulletproof.

[nando]

Dude. You're looking at engines starting with an F, and your engine starting with an S doesn't run yet? :p

[VinniE30]

I don't get why everyone thinks the LS1 is light.
It is heavy. Heavier than the m20, m30, m5x/s5x, n5x, s54, even the DOHC v8 m60!

I think it's already been mentioned, but the F20C isn't all that light.

You're referring to the link where the F20C with trans weighs 460 lbs vs the LS1 with trans which weighs a ridiculous 627 lbs? That's a huge difference in weight as far as engines are concerned.

Even the heavy s54 weighs less than the ls1 - even with assuming that the ls1 transmission in that example weighs 100 lbs which is much more than the getrag and zf transmissions we use.

Lets assume the F20C transmission weighs the same as the getrag260 which probably isin't very far off.. The engine weighed above would then come in at at about the weight of the m54, while being shorter and sitting farther back in the engine bay.

[Bill 84 318i]

Oh, in the US you can get an F20C and 6 speed transmission for around $4500.

Thanks for the info, Eecen. I didn't realize the F20C and transmission weighed around the same as an LS1.

I mean the motors themselves are apples to kumquats, but...a 165lb difference is hardly "around the same."

[mr2peak]

I'm thinking K20/24 hybrid, much more potential for a lot less money

[John T]

I had very seriously considered this swap before deciding to leave my e30 alone and start working on a new race car. It's much more difficult than it looks.

The F20C has a very different shape than a BMW 4-banger. It will NOT fit into an e30 without major surgery. The front subframe and steering rack are in the way. You either need to move it WAY back in the chassis, or cut out the front subframe and remove the steering rack. This swap is actually a little easier in an '02 since you've already got a steering box instead of rack-and-pinion. Still, it takes some major surgery to make it work. An LS1 swap is easier.

I think it's already been mentioned, but the F20C isn't all that light.

The S2000 basically has a huge hole in the center of the engine bay. The steering rack runs in front of the engine, etc. BMW engine bays have a subframe + steering rack going right across the middle. If you put an F20C on top of it, it sticks way the hell up past the hood.

Like I said, it's much trickier than it seems at first glance.

Agreed, a close friend of mines did one in an 02 using an AEM ems. Electronically not hard. This is also the car that " luckyhenderickson" has seen using the S2000 digital display as well.
Not sure in to E30 but in the 02 the firewall and tunnel must be reworked/sheet metaled to use the 6-speed; one of my favorite shifting trannys btw.
And yes the subframe differences make the swap easier for the 02.
With all versions of the "F" motor using the same pan, pan swapping for sump location isn't an option.
None the less he tuned the car on pump to 240whp if I remember right, Honda left a lot of room on that one.
Ended up being a really cool/fun car, I'll post picks as soon as I have the chance to fire up my archive drive.