Deep Web/Bitcoin Mining

[ajackz]

if YOU can't physically touch it, neither can the thief and, therefore, such wealth would be completely out of reach...

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But from what I understand is that you pay real money to buy these instruments of wealth that THEY are selling in order to make your rich on emoney's.



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[tjts1]

Im still lost. How does xxx amount of BTC equal any real money?

http://bitcoinity.org/markets?exchange=mtgox

https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Bitcoin is worth whatever people are willing exchange for it.

Do you just transfer to your paypal or something?

From what I've found www.coinbase.com is the easiest/cheapest place to buy/sell bitcoin for USD. You lose complete anonymity since it works through ACH to transfer money from your bank account but from that point on you're free to use a mixer to anonimize any further transactions. It takes about 1 week to setup your account and get the BTC in your hands.

More lost than a elementary-schooler at a Skrillex concert

Most things worth doing are not easy. Speaking for myself, bitcoin has been the best performing investment over the last year. I take risk for a living but never put all my eggs in one basket.

http://blockchain.info/charts

[jclar]

But from what I understand is that you pay real money to buy these instruments of wealth that THEY are selling in order to make your rich on emoney's.



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There's no central entity benefiting from you using bitcoins. You are also not required to pay for them, as you can create them out of nothing, provided you have a computer with the capabilities to do so.

[pandaboo911]

So from what I've read a standalone ASIC can generate upwards of $2500 per day at the current market rate / difficulty. This of course isn't real money, it's just speculation.
I've seen people offering 10,000 for one of the Avalon machines.

Why don't we all just build our own, how hard could it be?

[decay]

ASIC stands for application-specific integrated circuit.

if you have chip- and board-level manufacturing processes available to you, then have at it :P

[tjts1]

With more ASIC miners coming online the hash rate of the bitcoin network is increasing rapidly and so is the difficulty. The network adjusts so the TOTAL bitcoin production rate remains close to 25btc/10 minutes. Long story short, if you didn't order your ASIC bitcoin miner more than 6 months ago chances are your ROE will be extremely slow.

http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

[R3Z3N]

Bitcoin exchanges must comply with money laundering laws

[HarukoE30]

Is this still worth doing? I'm looking into doing it just so I can pay for my VPN service through bit coins that I mine.

[tjts1]

Bitcoin exchanges must comply with money laundering laws

Yeah, good luck with the enforcement. Here's the guideline text from FinCen:

c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.

A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/...2013-G001.html

[nando]

this is no different than any other speculative investment - except being far more risky, completely unregulated, and skirting the edges of legality.

if you don't think it's in a gray area, maybe you need to read up on money laundering. what else do you think people are using it for?

also, if all of your "profits" are still in bitcoins, you haven't made anything yet. it's a paper gain - an unrealized profit. It's not real until you exchange it for money that you can actually buy something with. No different than owning stocks or bonds. I have thousands in paper gains in my accounts that don't mean anything until I sell.

you could probably make the same amount of money in penny stocks.. and at least those are regulated.

[tjts1]

this is no different than any other speculative investment - except being far more risky, completely unregulated, and skirting the edges of legality.

if you don't think it's in a gray area, maybe you need to read up on money laundering. what else do you think people are using it for?

also, if all of your "profits" are still in bitcoins, you haven't made anything yet. it's a paper gain - an unrealized profit. It's not real until you exchange it for money that you can actually buy something with. No different than owning stocks or bonds. I have thousands in paper gains in my accounts that don't mean anything until I sell.

you could probably make the same amount of money in penny stocks.. and at least those are regulated.

Being regulated by the government isn't always a virtue. Bitcoin can be exchanged for any number of goods and services as well as straight cash locally.

https://localbitcoins.com/sell_bitcoins

[nando]

you can walk into your grocery store and buy food for your family? pay your mortgage? buy a car?

interesting.

oh, wait.. you can't really do any of those things. Just like I can't plunk down a stock certificate and buy parts for my E30 at the auto parts store.

it's speculative. that's fine - I have some very risky, very rewarding stocks. But I'm aware that they are risky and I could lose all of my money in the blink of an eye.

That's all I'm saying - be aware that you are investing in something that is extremely risky. Even normal currency investing is very risky unless you really know your shit.

Things just don't increase 500% in value for no reason. Nothing appreciates forever. There could be a huge bubble in bitcoins but since the market is so opaque, you have no real idea why it has gone up so much. the same thing happens in all kinds of investments all the time. Housing? Check. Stocks? Check. Bonds? Check check. Tulips? oh yeah. huge bubble that nearly cratered whole economies.

-it's unregulated
-the market is not transparent (who is buying bitcoins? in massive quantities? if somebody buys/sells more than a certain amount of a stock I own, they have to report to the SEC and I can see who, why, and how much)
-it's appreciated like 500% in a short amount of time (why?)
-could be potentially used for money laundering purposes (I don't want to spend my life in prison, do you?)
-it's a currency, which even if it were a "normal" one, is already a very risky investment

make hay while the sun shines, just don't forget what you're really doing.

[tjts1]

you can walk into your grocery store and buy food for your family? pay your mortgage? buy a car?

interesting.

oh, wait.. you can't really do any of those things. Just like I can't plunk down a stock certificate and buy parts for my E30 at the auto parts store.

You're right, there aren't a lot of physical stores that accept bitcoin. That will take time. The biggest barrier at the moment is the fact that most people aren't aware of bitcoin. The entry cost and transaction cost to accepting bitcoin are much lower than accepting credit cards which are ubiquitous at this point despite the high cost to retailers. I think credit card companies and banks have much more to fear from banks than FIAT currencies. As previously mentioned there there are a few thousand online retailers that accept bitcoin. This is one of the larger ones I've used.

https://www.bitcoinstore.com/

There is some rumblings about bitcoin retailers using Amazon's fulfillment system.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1256...ith-amazon-com
Amazon itself it terrified of bitcoin.

Bitcoin has also been used to raise money for charity work.

https://www.smore.com/t3y6

[blueapplesoda]

Give it some time...

You can order pizza from pizzaforcoins.com while you wait.

I started accepting Bitcoins, but its just a matter of integrating the system into the infrastructure. Maybe others will follow suit, its got to start somewhere. When you are used to paying a transfer fee of 3.1% per transaction, plus a your paypal ripoff currency exchange fee for int'l customers....bitcoins start looking attractive. Not for $15 parts, but for the larger transactions above $1000 or so.

It may not be profitable or convenient yet, but if it keeps this up, it will eventually get there. It makes sense. Lets just hope it doesn't fall through.

[decay]

you can walk into your grocery store and buy food for your family? pay your mortgage? buy a car?

interesting.

oh, wait.. you can't really do any of those things. Just like I can't plunk down a stock certificate and buy parts for my E30 at the auto parts store.

Shit is happening fast in the BTC world- an acquaintance of mine started this:

https://www.bitcoinrunner.com/

As far as the "but people are doing illegal stuff with it!" argument-

You can still buy a gun, download a torrent client, etc etc