Why forums need "assholes"

[Bimmerfanatik]

lol you guys are never gonna drop that. Robby, they think my bro is gay even though he isnt. But whatever. Heeter, if you drive at the limit of your car, you cant go any faster ;)

Will

he is YOUR brother, Will..... ;)

[Rigmaster]

Quote:
If you are constantly limited by your car, how are you going to get faster?

hmmmmmmm....

What is: Improve the driver's skills? Alex, for teh win!


YOU might have reached the limits of your car at YOUR skill level, but I'll bet $$$ that you could put a better driver in that same car, and he (or she) would be able to turn alot faster laps than you could, even on the first couple of laps. Instead of spending $$$ on mods to make the car go faster, spend your time + $$ on seat time and QUALITY instruction to figure out how to make the car go faster. Funny thing is, there will ALWAYS be someone out there who is a better, faster driver- so you will ALWAYS have some room for improvement that does not involve mods.

God knows I'm not agreeing with 100% of what Heeter says, but I tend to agree with his (alleged) basic premise- that you are alot better off spending your time and $$$$ improving the driver rather than "improving" the car with mods. A stock E30 is alot more capable than most people could ever imagine on track. Once you make sure the car is safe and mechanically sound, then you can spend more time in the seat, and less time on the internet getting into e-cock fights and looking at the latest innovations to make your car go "faster"......


Bret.

[Bimmerfanatik]

YOU might have reached the limits of your car at YOUR skill level, but I'll bet $$$ that you could put a better driver in that same car, and he (or she) would be able to turn alot faster laps than you could.

This is 100% true - a better driver in an average car can easily be faster than an average driver in a better car - someone like Andretti said something along those lines.

Remember that video of the chick in the van on the 'ring? Point proven.

[StereoInstaller1]

OK, so I have a question.

Let's say we have the usual '87 325is, 250,000+ miles.

Should we be looking to replace bushings, steering rack, shocks, etc. that NEED replacing with stock, or upgrade?

Seems to me that the upgrade stuff would be wise.

I wanna try some auto-x stuff this year. I am glad to learn from your experiences....but....I wish you guys would stop this fucking squabbling...you sound like my kids, but less eloquent.

Luke

[Rigmaster]

OK, so I have a question.

Let's say we have the usual '87 325is, 250,000+ miles.

Should we be looking to replace bushings, steering rack, shocks, etc. that NEED replacing with stock, or upgrade?

Seems to me that the upgrade stuff would be wise.

I wanna try some auto-x stuff this year. I am glad to learn from your experiences....but....I wish you guys would stop this fucking squabbling...you sound like my kids, but less eloquent.

Luke

My opinion- it's OK to replace stuff like that with stock if you like, or take the opportunity and upgrade to polyurethane bushings and "sport" shocks + springs. Even replacing worn out 250k+ bushings with stock will be a huge improvement and more than enough for autox and some track days.

Honestly, unless the stuff on your car is worn out to the point of being dangerous, take it to the autox just like it is and have a go at it. You will be surprised at how well the car does. I did my first 8-10 driver's schools in a completely stock 325is and "upgraded" slowly over a couple of years. It's still not a hugely modified car, but it is fun as hell. BTW- I've been doing DE events for about 10 years now with the same car, been instructing for about 6-7 years.


Bret.

[Jordan325iC]

Am I going to hell for ordering H&Rsports/bilstiens before my first DE? On the plus side, I'm really inspired to attend a DE. Maybe I can squeeze it in before I install my suspension.

[Rigmaster]

Am I going to hell for ordering H&Rsports/bilstiens before my first DE? On the plus side, I'm really inspired to attend a DE. Maybe I can squeeze it in before I install my suspension.

ABSOLUTELY (not).

Don't worry about it, things like H&R sports and bilsteins are not exactly radical race-only mods. They will help your car handle on the track, and still be totally streetable.

I think the people who make the mistake of waiting to do a DE until they have a fully race prepped car, or an E36M3 on coilovers or something like that are the people who pick up bad habits that are awfully hard to break. Those who start out with (mostly) stock E30's or similar on street tires are much more likely to learn how to drive fast and smoothly and get the most out of their car, no matter what mods they make in the future.


For me, I waited until I got my first E30 to do a DE after years of driving a 2002 and never feeling comfortable with the track-ability of that car due to various fluid leaks, rust and lots of worn out suspension parts......I took the E30 on track 100% stock on street tires for quite a few events before making the first mod.

Bret.

[rwh11385]

OK, so I have a question.

Let's say we have the usual '87 325is, 250,000+ miles.

Should we be looking to replace bushings, steering rack, shocks, etc. that NEED replacing with stock, or upgrade?

Seems to me that the upgrade stuff would be wise.

I wanna try some auto-x stuff this year. I am glad to learn from your experiences....but....I wish you guys would stop this fucking squabbling...you sound like my kids, but less eloquent.

Luke

Bushings - urethane isn't going to wear out like rubber, and although if you just replaced it might not have a problem with bushings, this is not true with the motor mounts. You should replace those with IE units or similar. But if its a street car and you are just doing a few events and thinking about repeated abuse for several years down the line, no problem with rubber RTABs, etc. Better comfort on the street. Bimmerworld upgraded tranny mounts are my preference. No real added NVH.

Steering rack? stock. Read the e30tech thread. You're going to be unsmooth with the inputs starting out, and the quicker rack will hurt you rather than help. (and wide/stickier tires are just going to cover it up. drive on 195s compared to 225s and realize how much easier it is to turn the wheel, for example. the grip of the wide tires resists change, and this will mask your unsmoothness at the track, while is why learning on 195s is challenging. But worthwhile)

Shocks? Bilstein sports and H&R sports would be good / fine. It just gets hairy when you are running really stiff spring rates and your ability is not up to match (i.e. a beginner/novice). Sports would be a good choice though.


some things don't matter as greatly as others, and they aren't really raising the bar. but other things will. raise the bar = harder to get on top of "that level." or other things make starting out much harder.

basically, a stiff suspension and big sways will give a greater envenlope of handling, but both will make your car harder to settle as a n00b, much less forgiving. (plus, it'd harder to feel the body roll and vehicle dynamics then. if your car is on realistic suspension you can sense it and also be able to react. One of our classroom instructors pointed out people in heavier cars experience more roll, but that actually helps when starting to learn like when people take X5s our there. And then bigger tires will give more grip, but you'll be going faster when you make a mistake and you'll reach limits later.

possibly we can agree on usually, the last thing someone needs is really more power. because basically you're saying i am driving my car to its limit and it cannot go any faster. and you have less time in between corners to set up and think. same thing with tires. i cannot drive this car currently any faster with these tires. but if you drive more and more you might be surprised at what the tires or car is capable of before you step it up.

Obviously not everyone is patient or determined enough to run on stock power, 195s, and a wimpy suspension for every school. But it does force the improvement to come from the driver. At some point, you might want to have more fun, so you raise the bar, but moderation is key. And doing one thing at a time lets you realize what each thing does.


So Rigmaster got what I was alluding to in my last post.

Okay, some people want to just have fun, and they will do what they want. But I am thankful for people like trent, charlie, langsten, rob, jay, my instructors, my pals who track, my uncle, bryan watts and the other bf.c trackers who have encouraged not to mod the car to get faster really, but focus on improving the loose nut behind the wheel. And passing this on to the future DE "generations" is a good thing.

[rwh11385]

ABSOLUTELY (not).

Don't worry about it, things like H&R sports and bilsteins are not exactly radical race-only mods. They will help your car handle on the track, and still be totally streetable.

I think the people who make the mistake of waiting to do a DE until they have a fully race prepped car, or an E36M3 on coilovers or something like that are the people who pick up bad habits that are awfully hard to break. Those who start out with (mostly) stock E30's or similar on street tires are much more likely to learn how to drive fast and smoothly and get the most out of their car, no matter what mods they make in the future.


For me, I waited until I got my first E30 to do a DE after years of driving a 2002 and never feeling comfortable with the track-ability of that car due to various fluid leaks, rust and lots of worn out suspension parts......I took the E30 on track 100% stock on street tires for quite a few events before making the first mod.

Bret.

I agree with this post. Especially in bold. Keeping it stock or reasonably close encourages proper learning.


You could hit the track with a uber stiff ride and wide tires and pretty much dick around, go faster than others, and maybe be safe (i.e. the Blue Evo with stickers) and as long as you don't go past those big limits, you'd be fine. Of course, you wouldn't be learning much except avoiding to fuck up. (like a lot of people on the street maybe don't know how to drive, but luckily avoid accidents)


On a near stock ride, you will reach the limits sooner and then can actually improve yourself. And a suspension with some roll and small tires, you should be able to understand the forces at hand better.

[rwh11385]

Why can't you mod your car to the KP limit, and then learn how to drive until you can reach that limit? Way faster, way cheaper, same results.

Worked out really well for Lars. . . .

same reason why novices aren't allowed to run R compounds. . .