Free speech or Hate speech?

[parkerbink]

^That is the closest to "offensive" of the pictures. In my opinion not offensive. I say anyone that justifies violence as acceptable for what they consider to be an affront is ignorant.

Violence should be and usually is not the last recourse, sadly many times it is the first.

This kind of reaction to a cartoon is unbelieveable and I think if it were not condoned it would end.

[royalflush313]

Jesus has been satirized repeatedly. Shit, he is a character on one of the crudest and most offensive shows on TV. One whole episode made fun of him being a charlatan. His crusifiction has also been the butt of jokes. Vishnu and Buddah have been hit also. Shit Catholics are made fun of on a daily basis.

Like Charlie said, if people weren't blowing shit up in the name of Mohammed and Allah then maybe the rest of the world wouldnt associate them together. Its kind of like how people still associate the inquisition with the Catholic Church.

oh there's no doubt that other religions has also been the topic of mockery as well.
But like Charlie said (though I don't know about other religion), the cartoon is a direct breach of the koran. It is one thing to celebrate one's own religion, but to put down another's as inferior NOT because of the claim that one is better the other, but for the reason that one of the religion is actually 'bad'.
The cartoon is not just saying "we are better than muslims," but rather "Islam is a bad and violent religion."
Islam is a peaceful religion, it's just the extreme Muslims who tend to interpret the religion in an unordinary sense that is causing all the problems.

I wouldn't doubt that there has been a analogous scenario involving other religious groups. That, however, does not necessarily mean that such scenario should not have also been categorized as hate speech. I'm just asking a question of should or should not.

I don't think that anyone could justifiably light the building on fire as a result of that cartoon too. But to say that the Euros and North Americans are retaliating to the violence that the Muslims has caused, is just as unjustifiable as the Muslims retaliating to the Euros and North Americans for their use of free speech which I consider as hate speech (in many cases at least).

Religions suck in general. They are always intertwined with politics, and that just furthers the problem.

As for Muslims blowing shit up . . . I for one, have the view that it's eye for an eye. I'm not saying that they have any kind of legitimacy, but neither do other groups/countries for blowing their shit up.

[Ryan Stewart]

How is that saying we are better? Who the fuck is better? It doesnt show Jesus beating him with a stick nor does it specify any other religion. Its a commentary on fundamentalism in Islam.

I dont care if it goes against the Koran. Its up to them to follow the rules of their religion. If they think they are going to force their pratices on me then I will support anyone who opposes them. I dont care what religion it is they have no right to tell me how to live my life, its my choice to make.

That is the root of the problem with all fundamentalists. They dont just pratice their religion but they think everyone else should too. That is why the Puritans got kicked the fuck out to form this country, its the reason the Spaniards killed just about everyone, and its why every faction of every religion has made war with every other faction of every other religion at some time or another (or will, eventually).

[parkerbink]

How is that saying we are better? Who the fuck is better? It doesnt show Jesus beating him with a stick nor does it specify any other religion. Its a commentary on fundamentalism in Islam.

I dont care if it goes against the Koran. Its up to them to follow the rules of their religion. If they think they are going to force their pratices on me then I will support anyone who opposes them. I dont care what religion it is they have no right to tell me how to live my life, its my choice to make.

That is the root of the problem with all fundamentalists. They dont just pratice their religion but they think everyone else should too. That is why the Puritans got kicked the fuck out to form this country, its the reason the Spaniards killed just about everyone, and its why every faction of every religion has made war with every other faction of every other religion at some time or another (or will, eventually).

Could not have said it better.

[cpain49176]

http://danishcartoons.ytmnd.com/

theres the story ytmnd style

i think religions in general are stupid, all relegions were made up to give poor peasants, who lived shitty lives, hope for a better life after death. all religion has done has lead to wars, and give people false hope for a better afterlife. the muslims have gone too far (i know not all muslims are extremeist though). boo hoo, a newspaper prints cartoons mocking your religion, so cry me a fucking river.

[royalflush313]

How is that saying we are better? Who the fuck is better? It doesnt show Jesus beating him with a stick nor does it specify any other religion. Its a commentary on fundamentalism in Islam.

I said that the cartoon doesnt necessarily suggest that someone or some religion is better, but rather that "Islam is a bad and violent religion."
I'd agree with anyone else that in a macrospective view, this is a case of free speech, but if you just take this incident, I don't see it as any other way than hate speech.

But yeah I agree about what you said.

What if we were to publish a cartoon where Jesus is beating Mohammed? Then the cartoon is explicitely saying that one religion is better than the other.
With the satirical cartoon of Mohammed alone, I would think that the message is, long story short, "Islam sucks, it's violenet." Doesn't this message imply that, then, other religions are superior?

As for being forced to become Muslim or any other race, Europeans or North Americans aren't forced to praise Allah. Nor have we forced Christianity or Buddhism etc. on them.
NOT publishing cartoons like that, shouldn't be considered as forced religion, but rather simply respecting others' opinions. What good will anyone achieve by putting one religion down?

If the Muslims are gonna bitch and wine everytime we open our mouths, anything deragotory about Islam, and in every case, they are gonna burn shit down, then wouldn't it be the more mature stance to not say them?

I can't wait for some really smart dude to figure out the actual origin of Universe and the origin of origin of Universe, etc etc, and that such creator is not God. If we could prove the non-existence of God, Allah, or whatever, it would be much better.
Or better yet, we find a religion that is actually true and proved.

I don't see that happening in our life time though. But if it did, it would solve a whole shitloads of problems.

[cpain49176]

I can't wait for some really smart dude to figure out the actual origin of Universe and the origin of origin of Universe, etc etc, and that such creator is not God. If we could prove the non-existence of God, Allah, or whatever, it would be much better.

darwin: evolution

[Ryan Stewart]

Prove evolution....

Nothing can be proven about the origination of the universe because the very nature of matter and energy now is remarkably different now than it was 10 billion years ago. Science has its limitations.

The better question is the definition of god. By nature of sciences belief in cause and effect there is the paradox. Without that one first cause (which cant exist with cause-effect) nothing would exist. Existence was created by something that cannot exist, that is god.

[cpain49176]

[hamann318is]

Prove evolution....

Nothing can be proven about the origination of the universe because the very nature of matter and energy now is remarkably different now than it was 10 billion years ago. Science has its limitations.

The better question is the definition of god. By nature of sciences belief in cause and effect there is the paradox. Without that one first cause (which cant exist with cause-effect) nothing would exist. Existence was created by something that cannot exist, that is god.

I think people are going to be pretty upset to figure out that there are a lot of questions about humans that we'll never be able to answer.

[chuckybob]

As for being forced to become Muslim or any other race, Europeans or North Americans aren't forced to praise Allah. Nor have we forced Christianity or Buddhism etc. on them.

I can't wait for some really smart dude to figure out the actual origin of Universe and the origin of origin of Universe, etc etc, and that such creator is not God. If we could prove the non-existence of God, Allah, or whatever, it would be much better.Or better yet, we find a religion that is actually true and proved.

I don't see that happening in our life time though. But if it did, it would solve a whole shitloads of problems.

christianity hasn't been forced on muslims lately.

true dat to most of the last 2 paragraphs.

[Charlie]

http://retecool.com/comments.php?id=13539_0_1_0_C

Now we're talking.

A Dutch photoshop phriday with pictures of Muhammed. God bless 'em.

-Charlie