Garage Lighting - Wiring Question

[Thizzelle]

it's better in case an outlet fails it doesn't fuck the whole line up

[bmwman91]

Well, when I am done with this, look southward on a clear night and you might be able to see where my house is when I have the garage fully lit! Thanks for the help.

Any thoughts on having a 4-gang box with the 3 switches and a GFCI switch like in the link gating them? Just in case a rafter leaks on a fixture during operation. The idea would be to have the hot lines come in and to the GFCI, and then the 3 switched circuits coming from its output (using pigtails of course). Got the idea from Pantless' post further up in here.

[TurboJake]

Seriously, just do 2 switches. The cost is pretty negligible to run less than all 9 at once, as long as you aren't in the garage 24/7. Each fixture only uses about 90 watts (Due to inefficiency in the ballast, and I'll say I'm just estimating a ridiculously high inefficiency rate of 40ish percent ). So per hour, if you were running 5 vs 9, you're only saving about 360 watts of energy. Which is roughly one kWh for every 2.7 hours. Which, I'm just going to go with the going rate up by me, is 12 cents in that time.

The total for this system, assuming 90 watts per fixture, and 12 cents per kWh, is 9.72 cents per hour...

I personally like to leave the lighting and the outlets on completely different breakers. That way when the breaker trips (It happens), I'm not blind. Much easier when getting our from under the car to see where everything is. So take that into consideration.

Daisy chain 6 on one switch, and daisy chain the 3 for the laundry on the other. It's also very, very worth it to install a sub breaker in the garage. It really helps for upgrading in your happy place.

[bmwman91]

All of the house's lights are on one 15A breaker, including the garage light system I am planning. I am sticking a GFCI between the rest of the house and the garage so that if there is a fault in the garage it doesn't bring down all of the house's lights.

There is also a separate 20A circuit dedicated solely to a single duplex outlet in a corner of the garage. A little weird, but it makes for a good starting point for adding outlets on all of the walls (because there are only outlets in 2 places right now). Since all of the walls are open (except the one shared with the kitchen) it is somewhat simpler.

Honestly, I want to re-wire the entire house since it is sort of a kludge of the PO's addition of earth grounds and the house only has an aging 100A main panel. However, the plumbing probably needs to be overhauled too, and I might as well gut the entire interior while I am at it (or just level it and rebuild). At that point I will put in a 100A sub-panel in the garage. That's all part of the 10-year plan though since funds are a bit too tight for that at the moment.

[AndrewBird]

how long is the garage I don't think you need 9 lights, wow

I have 4 of the same fixtures in my small 2-car garage (20x20), along with a single 100w bulb near the middle back and sometimes wish I had more light. I have a small 18" neon above the bench as well that I use all the time as well. You can never have too much light.

[bmwman91]

Old confusing info removed...

[AndrewBird]

Instead of putting a GFCI in a separate box, why not just get a GFCI breaker for the electrical panel?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_111839-82364-CHFGF115CS_1z0yt2m+1z10wdu__?productId=50034536&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1%26page%3D1&facetInfo=Ground%20fault

[bmwman91]

I considered that as well. The intent is to have the garage protected in case I blast liquid all over or if the roof leaks, and NOT have the rest of the house's lighting go down. The garage light circuit is part of the whole-house overhead light circuit. It's just how the house is wired right now (I've only been here ~3 months). Eventually I am going to be ripping walls down and I will see about stuffing a 50A or 100A sub-panel in there, but that is a few years away.

[bmwman91]

Alrighty, I got the wire run and have begun the process of modding + assembling the light fixtures. I went through 2 vented paper respirators up in the attic...all the sweat and breath humidity soaked them, and I was basically laying in the stupid cellulose insulation stuff to run it. Anyway, I am glad to be done with that. Everything is earth grounded properly, and I checked all outlets and switches for proper continuity with a DMM + extension cord before connecting things up to the hot line.

As for the fixtures themselves, the grounding scheme is...inadequate IMO. There is no really clear way for the reflector pan to make good ground contact with the ballast housing which the cord's ground is connected to (these ones don't have cords, so I am wiring those in myself). So, I am using a drill & wire brush to take the paint off of the main ground boss on the housing and then securing the cord ground on the screw with a ring terminal. Then I scrape the paint off of one of the ballast's tabs and attach a ground strap there (ring terminal + screw again) and the strap runs to a spot on the corner of the reflector where I brushed the paint off and secure the other end with a screw + nut + ring terminal. From what I have read, having a good ground plane adjacent to fluorescent tubes helps a LOT when it comes to igniting the arc and it improves bulb life. These lights use instant start ballasts, so that already puts enough stress on things. And then of course there's the safety factor...the circuit is on a GFCI and if a hot wire were to break and hit the housing, I wouldn't need to worry so much about touching a live fixture.

Anyone got any recommendations for decent quality outlets and switches? I bought Cooper brand stuff at Lowes, and I had to throw out all of the screws that came with them because the heads would break off without any trouble. I ran by the local Fastenal and got some higher quality #6 screws. The Cooper wall switches (the bigger rocker type) also seem to be of sort of low quality. They don't "feel" great when I toggle them, and one of them tripped the GFCI somehow when I toggled it very very slowly (also heard some crackling). The wiring in the switch box is immaculate, so it isn't that. I think that I might just rip out all of those Cooper switches and outlets and toss them in the trash. The local OSH sells Leviton brand stuff, but I sort of wonder if it all comes from the same factory in China anyway. I am mainly concerned about safety out there.

Here's the final wiring schematic that I worked from for the garage. I'm a firm believer in the seven P's (proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance).

[AndrewBird]

I think you are over thinking this WAY too much, but that's just my opinion. I used 2-wire (no ground) extension cords with the ends cut off to wire all my lights.

[hoveringuy]

Instead of putting a GFCI in a separate box, why not just get a GFCI breaker for the electrical panel?

You should always try to power lights from a separate circuit. Imagine you trip the GFCI which causes all of the lights to go out, as well!

I have a single 20 amp circuit going to my garage, it splits to a GFCI for the plugs and goes direct to all of the lights. I would rather have a separate lighting branch wire, but at least if the GFCI trips the lights stay on.

[Doughnut]

Your setting up an illegal plantation in your garage aren't you...

That many lights is nuts!

[bmwman91]

I think you are over thinking this WAY too much, but that's just my opinion. I used 2-wire (no ground) extension cords with the ends cut off to wire all my lights.

Not gonna argue about that one. I sort of treat house projects like I do car projects. Indeed it is sort of silly to apply that level of anal retentiveness to a house since tolerances on stuff are measured in quarters of an inch, but hell, why not. I usually like to put in 2x the work in the beginning so I don't have to dick with things again for a long time. Having the earth ground be fully functional and secure is also critical to making sure that the GFCI works properly in the event of a problem. There's a real possibility that the roof will leak in the garage and dump on one of the lights. I haven't lived here long enough to see what happens in a rain storm.

You should always try to power lights from a separate circuit. Imagine you trip the GFCI which causes all of the lights to go out, as well!

I have a single 20 amp circuit going to my garage, it splits to a GFCI for the plugs and goes direct to all of the lights. I would rather have a separate lighting branch wire, but at least if the GFCI trips the lights stay on.

My thoughts exactly. If the roof leaks or I blow up a water container, only the garage lights go out. The rest of the house's lighting is unaffected. I would put in a separate circuit for the garage lights, but there are no open slots left in the ancient 100A main box. Eventually I will upgrade to a 200A panel.

Your setting up an illegal plantation in your garage aren't you...

That many lights is nuts!

Haha.

The unfinished walls (studs & tar paper) don't reflect much light, so it takes this many lights to get a reasonable level in there. When I do get around to finishing them someday, it may well be nuts. 53000 lumens sucka!

[AndrewBird]

You should always try to power lights from a separate circuit. Imagine you trip the GFCI which causes all of the lights to go out, as well!

Yeah, I didn't think about that. Makes sense, though my parents house has a GFCI outlet in the garage that is somehow linked to the lights. GFCI blows and the lights go out.

That house is old and screwy though. There is even an uotlet in the downstairs ceiling that is on a circuit from upstairs. Found that out while working on it, thinking I had all the outlets off in the entire room. That one was still powered. lol

[Thizzelle]

I think you are over thinking this WAY too much, but that's just my opinion. I used 2-wire (no ground) extension cords with the ends cut off to wire all my lights.

straight ghetto and fire hazard