9/11 Lie?

[Old'n'Slow]

How would a government that allegedly can't even clean up a hurricane area be able to string together such a tight conspiracy such as this?
-Charlie

The government doesn't have a tight conspiracy. If it did, we would all be convinced. I for one, am not. I am disturbed by all the holes in this entire 9/11 story. I was in DC last week and drove out to the area near the Pentagon and looked at the approach to the Pentagon where a Boeing 757 was supposedly piloted with the accuracy and skill of a surgeon into exactly the first floor of the Pentagon. According to the government, the pilot of AA77 had a commercial pilot's license but was not type certified for a 757. It would be difficult for a pilot familiar with a 757 to land with that degree of accuracy in a non-duress approach in ideal conditions with flaps and slaps properly configured for landing speeds. And this marginally trained "terrorist" did it at double the speed in a nose down attitude and no flare? Pardon my doubt.

For those of you who have stated that AA77 must have crashed into the Pentagon that day because you knew of someone who was on that flight who died....well, I don't doubt they died. But I wasn't there to collect and ID the pieces of people at the Pentagon and neither were you. That's my point. We don't know where they died. We just don't. The people that know ain't talkin'...

Please....I'm not saying that everything our leaders have stated about this entire incident is a lie...there's just been a lot of nonsense generated by this whole affair. We are told to fear Al Qaeda, but not to worry about the 3000-5000 "undocumenteds" who enter across the borders everyday. Some sources put that number closer to 10,000. 3 million a year. Yet DHS is without teeth. Wake up and smell the fish, gentlemen. All is not as they are saying it is...

It is your patriotic duty to ASK.

[royalflush313]

9/11 happened. Planes crashed into buildings and as a result, some damage was done. There's also no real doubt that, as a direct result, people lost their lives.

But how could any-one of us have any superior knowledge about who is responsible and for what reason? We can only speculate, given the information (which could likely be false) we have.
It is reasonable enough to believe that the US Gov't had prior knowledge and did nothing to stop it, while, it is also reasobale enough to believe that the US Gov't had absolutely no prior knowledge and the attack was completely of a suprise.
It is also reasonable enough to believe that the 9/11 gave the initiative to goto war in Iraq - and it could also be believed that Iraq and 9/11 are completely separate and disconnected events.

Charlie, you are one really close-minded and hypocritical person. Grow some balls and accept the fact that what you think you know is not always right.
Be it Pearl Harbour or 9/11, it is really a shame that you cannot accept anything but what you think happened.

*awaits angry, childish, and close-minded reply*

[Charlie]

I'm sorry that those of us who are educated and actually research events make those that rely on horseshit internet conspiracy theories feel badly about themselves.

In a few short minutes, I've managed to debunk most of the nonsense spewed on this thread, you kids have been able to do nothing more but quote sources that quote themselves. I've brought multiple sources with verfied sources that support my points, you guys have provided nothing.

-Charlie

[nkell09]

Dick Cheney's company Halliburton has made 10 billion dollars, his stock has gone up over 3,000%!!! 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to Bush and his cronies. He was able to divert billions of tax payer dollars into the pockets of his buddies. That is why 9/11 happened.

I'm sure if Dick Cheney was truly making out at 3000% then the democratic party would be all over it, no doubt in my mind....

So pre 9/11, my research shows that HAL was trading at around 20 dollars per share and today they are trading at 67.00. IF cheney was holding options granted at or below 20 then ((67-20)/20) works out to 235%...

I don't believe the gain is even that much, and this is confirmed in the following article.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/16/news...eney/index.htm
While this article is from october 2003, it still applies.

"Cheney holds 100,000 Halliburton shares at an option price of $54.50 per share, 33,333 shares at $28.125, and 300,000 shares at $39.50 "

So cheney can now exercise the shares..... and he says:
"He also has promised to donate all of his stock options to charity if they become valuable. The options currently are held in a trust for those charities. "

----The article citing the 3,000% gain....
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Ch...last_1011.html
I would like to ask exactly how they derived the chart? Why does the graph start in October 03 after the market drop following 9/11? It should start on the date at which Cheney acquired the options.

[ColdAccord]

i will just say a few things

first of all, from daN's first post, and all that followed, he seems to be saying that he just thought the piece was interesting. he didnt burn the american flag, he didnt say 9/11 planes were flown by george bush, or any of the crazy finger pointing he's been accused of.

he also maintained a pretty level head, while others took their time to criticize in a condiscending manner.

and in regard to questioning the government; that's the point of our government! it was designed so no single facet has too great of power, so it can always be kept in check. if people blindly accept everything the government says, then you are not involving yourself in the way our forefathers designed our government for.

and you can question the government without "hating america."

get off your high horses people.

opinions aside, there have been some pretty rude things said, charlie i'm looking at you specifically.

i can imagine this striking a chord with people, which is more than understandable. but i dont think you are even reading what dan is saying. he isnt coming out condemning the incident. geez.

and it is a fact that haliburton has received contracts for both iraq and new orleans without bidding taking place. hence monopoly. and haliburton even overcharged us a rather large amount.

if you dont believe me, just google it. i read this in a newspaper. and not some "liberal crap" newspaper.

and if you think government issued websites wouldn't issue biased information you're crazy. why would the U.S. ever issue anything against themselves? so their websites will obviously only contain the material THEY want people to read.

calm down people, it's just the internet

[rwh11385]

Charlie, you are one really close-minded and hypocritical person. Grow some balls and accept the fact that what you think you know is not always right.

Man, just because he's not dumb enough to fall for bullshit... he's closeminded?


Charlie, mebbe we should become more open-minded, and by that, I mean smoke a ton of weed and get retarded.

[nkell09]

It is hard for me to be open-minded regarding 9/11. It is such a significant event in my mind that there is little room to be open about it. Camp david is 20 minutes across town back home, and I remember the fighter jets flying overhead the day of and after 9/11.
........

It's hard to dog on stupid, unsubstantiated bullshit without sounding "negative".
-Charlie

[royalflush313]

I'm sorry that those of us who are educated and actually research events make those that rely on horseshit internet conspiracy theories feel badly about themselves.

In a few short minutes, I've managed to debunk most of the nonsense spewed on this thread, you kids have been able to do nothing more but quote sources that quote themselves. I've brought multiple sources with verfied sources that support my points, you guys have provided nothing.

-Charlie

Sorry, I must've missed the part where you have debunked any other events of possibility, with credible and verified (certain) sources.

I saw you link to a memorial page of the person who died. No-one has questioned the fact that people have died, and no-one has questioned that you unfortunately knew someone board of the aircraft who died. And I'm sorry to hear that.

I've read numerous papers by structural engineers that have studied the crash, and they all tend to agree with the analysis that the weakened support structures that began to give way, resulting in domino effect.

What papers, and who are these structural engineers?

It doesn't even matter, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the airplanes hit the towers, and this was the direct cause of the buildings' collapse.
Let's also assume that whomever crashed into these towers are in fact those who we accuse today.

What evidence do you have that denies the questions that any prior knowledge of the attack was available within any members of the Government?

Charlie, as an educated and wise person, please correct our ignorances. Please debunk any skepticisms that we may have towards the American Government.

Since some are unable to come up with any reasonable objections to your superior knowledge, I beg that you inform us with the evidences needed that would completely abolish any skepticism.
Our inability to come up with an objection does not verify your opinion.

I only have some personal opinions as to what happened. I'll leave it up to the Engineers and Historians, and whatever specialists that may aid in coming up with a resolution.

My point is to show that you could be right, but you do not any reasons to act as though you are right or that your opinion, in some form of other, is superior than any others.

PS: rwh11385, keep sucking on Charlie's balls. I (and probably most) could give two shits about your opinions, as at least Charlie has tried to make points (with some attitude).
Looks like you and I have the same opinion for each other, we don't give a shit.

[Scott314]

Sorry, I must've missed the part where you have debunked any other events of possibility, with credible and verified (certain) sources.

I saw you link to a memorial page of the person who died. No-one has questioned the fact that people have died, and no-one has questioned that you unfortunately knew someone board of the aircraft who died. And I'm sorry to hear that.



What papers, and who are these structural engineers?

It doesn't even matter, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the airplanes hit the towers, and this was the direct cause of the buildings' collapse.
Let's also assume that whomever crashed into these towers are in fact those who we accuse today.

What evidence do you have that denies the questions that any prior knowledge of the attack was available within any members of the Government?

Charlie, as an educated and wise person, please correct our ignorances. Please debunk any skepticisms that we may have towards the American Government.

Since some are unable to come up with any reasonable objections to your superior knowledge, I beg that you inform us with the evidences needed that would completely abolish any skepticism.
Our inability to come up with an objection does not verify your opinion.

I only have some personal opinions as to what happened. I'll leave it up to the Engineers and Historians, and whatever specialists that may aid in coming up with a resolution.

My point is to show that you could be right, but you do not any reasons to act as though you are right or that your opinion, in some form of other, is superior than any others.

PS: rwh11385, keep sucking on Charlie's balls. I (and probably most) could give two shits about your opinions, as at least Charlie has tried to make points (with some attitude).
Looks like you and I have the same opinion for each other, we don't give a shit.

Buy gun.
Insert bullet.
Insert gun into mouth.
Point self in safe direction.
Pull trigger plz, kthxbye.

[DaN]

Can't we all just get along?

Whats the deal with building 7?
After seeing the video clip of Silverstein, I feel it's obvious it was purposely demolished. Why do they destroy a building because a small fire?
Is it possible that they planted charges while the building was on fire? Doesn't seem likely. So they were planted ahead of time. Look at the footage. Who planned this demolition? is the question.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2005/180305groundzero.htm

[65Matt]

Where did the plane hit the building?

[65Matt]

different angle

[AdironRider]

Do any of you actually have your pilots license? I do, and trust me, flying a place is one of the easiest things you can do, even on a commercial jet liner. Every plane is almost exactly the same, much like how if youve driven one car you can drive any other car. Commercial jet liners are just bigger and have lots of buttons to control all the creature comforts and systems that a commercial jet liner needs. The basic flight controls are simple.

[Old'n'Slow]

Do any of you actually have your pilots license? I do, and trust me, flying a place is one of the easiest things you can do, even on a commercial jet liner. Every plane is almost exactly the same, much like how if youve driven one car you can drive any other car. Commercial jet liners are just bigger and have lots of buttons to control all the creature comforts and systems that a commercial jet liner needs. The basic flight controls are simple.

What are you trying to say?

That you could hop into a 757, and fly it at near cruise speed to a landing point exactly at the base of a building without hitting the ground before impacting the building, or hitting an upper floor? Oh, and not leave a hole in the building bigger than a truck?

Just wondering....

[Ryan Stewart]

These guys were trained pilots and if a pilot can land a liner on a runway which is narrower than the pentagon and jets can land on a pitching carrier at night then I suspect that a few moderately trained pilots can hit a building the size of the pentagon. Also, according to ZM himself they were supposed to hit the White House or the Cap but couldnt find the Mall.

And to Dan, have you even been to the fucking world trade center? For starters, its not just a bunch of buildings on solid concrete. Below it are 3 stories of parking AND a mall. Drop 8 billion tons of debris at 100mph into what is essentially a hollow space that is supposed to be holding up another billion ton building. Now, would you want to hang out in that building after a "small fire."

All these theories are based on someone having no knowledge of the structure of any of the buildings, planes, or general physics.

As for there being no plane. Take a subsonic .45 round and fire it directly into reinforced concrete. Hell, fire a thousand of them. Then show me how many things you could find that would even resemble a bullet. All you will find is some lead spatter and copper shards. A bullet has a lot more rigidity than the hollow aluminum tube we call and airplane. The only reason the plane left a hole in the first place is a principal of stacking. The momentum of the rear of the plane pushed the front through. The wings are just hollow and full of fuel. They would just go splat upon impact spreading jet fuel along the building on either side of the hole causing a big fire on each side. Sort of like that picture you JUST posted.