My 4Runner has the full bag, ABS, traction control and stability control. Toyota leaves these on by default and until the latest model year, ALL of them CANNOT be turned off. My truck is an exception because when you lock the center diff, the stability control turns off.
During the big snowstorm we had up here a month ago or so, I had a chance to experience the full power of them all. I've said it before and I'll die saying it - ABS must cause far more crashes than it prevents in SNOW. What the fuck do I need traction control in a 4800 lb 4WD SUV LSDs all around and a central locker, and 3ft tall tires? My M5 could have used it when I got caught in an ice storm in it, with a souped up S38, ZR tires and a 3.91 rear end but then nothing would have helped me then. The stability control on the other hand, I think is outright fucking dangerous!!!
I've had my share of skids, my E30 with NONE of the above has taught me plenty about dealing with them. It's the only car I've ever managed to spin on both the track and autox because it's lighter and handles better than anything I've ever had and my natural reaction of lifting when it oversteers has learned me but good. Here's an example of the lessons:
(you know you got no traction when you can make an eta peel out)
So now having had a lot of experience with FWD, RWD and 4WD in all conditions, I am reasonably comfortable in saying that provided I don't do anything too stupid where you close your eyes and put 2 feet in, I can save it. The E30 taught me to stay on the throttle. The 4Runner, while I had the VSC off with the center diff locked for donuts, taught me if it understeers, just turn more into the turn and goose it - things fix themselves.
Then driving home, I was turning into a small street slowly and I wasn't going expecially fast, but I hit a slick spot and started understeering at a good pace. No problem, nothing compared to what I did in the parking lot, turn the wheel and goose it... NOTHING. Fucking VSC starts jacking off the brakes, cuts me off from the throttle and goes over the motherfucking curb!
The curb was only a few inches high and with the 265/70/17s nothing happened but I was SO FUCKING ANGRY!!! Toyota has apparently decided that in times of greatest need for driver input, it's going to cut me right the fuck off!!! I mean the only thing worse it could have done was also control the steering wheel and put it right into a goddamn utility pole.
Today it snowed again and I just drove around with the center diff locked. It understeered sometimes sure, easy save. Each time made me think that with the VSC, if I was going any faster and in a dangerous place, I'd be going into a tree or a parked car. It also made me want to write this.
How fucking bad of a driver do you have to be for these things to actually HELP you? I've driven all sorts of shit in my life, american, jap, german, not once have I come across an ABS system that didn't make the stopping distance at least twice as long as it would have been if I just skidded with the wheels locked IN THE SNOW (I want to make the clear distinction because I do think it helps a lot in the rain). I don't know about the 450HP C63 or anything, never driven one, but I can launch a car better in the snow in 2nd gear than any fucking traction control system. And the VSC, as far as I'm concerned, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If instead of that curb there was a kid sitting there, I'd be calling up my lawyers to have a good long chat in a courtroom with Toyota over who gets to control my car - me or the fucking computer. But since they've now put in off switches, I'm guessing someone already has.
During the big snowstorm we had up here a month ago or so, I had a chance to experience the full power of them all. I've said it before and I'll die saying it - ABS must cause far more crashes than it prevents in SNOW. What the fuck do I need traction control in a 4800 lb 4WD SUV LSDs all around and a central locker, and 3ft tall tires? My M5 could have used it when I got caught in an ice storm in it, with a souped up S38, ZR tires and a 3.91 rear end but then nothing would have helped me then. The stability control on the other hand, I think is outright fucking dangerous!!!
I've had my share of skids, my E30 with NONE of the above has taught me plenty about dealing with them. It's the only car I've ever managed to spin on both the track and autox because it's lighter and handles better than anything I've ever had and my natural reaction of lifting when it oversteers has learned me but good. Here's an example of the lessons:
(you know you got no traction when you can make an eta peel out)
So now having had a lot of experience with FWD, RWD and 4WD in all conditions, I am reasonably comfortable in saying that provided I don't do anything too stupid where you close your eyes and put 2 feet in, I can save it. The E30 taught me to stay on the throttle. The 4Runner, while I had the VSC off with the center diff locked for donuts, taught me if it understeers, just turn more into the turn and goose it - things fix themselves.
Then driving home, I was turning into a small street slowly and I wasn't going expecially fast, but I hit a slick spot and started understeering at a good pace. No problem, nothing compared to what I did in the parking lot, turn the wheel and goose it... NOTHING. Fucking VSC starts jacking off the brakes, cuts me off from the throttle and goes over the motherfucking curb!
The curb was only a few inches high and with the 265/70/17s nothing happened but I was SO FUCKING ANGRY!!! Toyota has apparently decided that in times of greatest need for driver input, it's going to cut me right the fuck off!!! I mean the only thing worse it could have done was also control the steering wheel and put it right into a goddamn utility pole.
Today it snowed again and I just drove around with the center diff locked. It understeered sometimes sure, easy save. Each time made me think that with the VSC, if I was going any faster and in a dangerous place, I'd be going into a tree or a parked car. It also made me want to write this.
How fucking bad of a driver do you have to be for these things to actually HELP you? I've driven all sorts of shit in my life, american, jap, german, not once have I come across an ABS system that didn't make the stopping distance at least twice as long as it would have been if I just skidded with the wheels locked IN THE SNOW (I want to make the clear distinction because I do think it helps a lot in the rain). I don't know about the 450HP C63 or anything, never driven one, but I can launch a car better in the snow in 2nd gear than any fucking traction control system. And the VSC, as far as I'm concerned, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If instead of that curb there was a kid sitting there, I'd be calling up my lawyers to have a good long chat in a courtroom with Toyota over who gets to control my car - me or the fucking computer. But since they've now put in off switches, I'm guessing someone already has.
R.I.P 07/01/09 - 04/23/10 :(
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