Obama Campaign Theatrics --- woman faints @ rallies a scam?

[e30sd]

holy crap a civilized convo on politics with r3vers? someone bookmark this.

[uofom3]

Holy shit, uofom3...dude, you're awesome. Everything you say is soo spot on! I'm so insanely shocked you're in Oregon! I thought everyone there was hippies. Or is that Washington? ;-)

Although, I have to say that globalization is pretty key these days. Like, for CAT, they are building and producing in China, Korea, France, etc - because that's where the customers are. It's just part of making a business stronger and being able to compete in the world market.




I think what goes on here is Obama LOVES to bring up that's he, himself, is a melting pot of multiple races. His father was in africa or something, his mom was something else - blah blah. Obama doesn't know anything about how to run a country, he's a moron. He's just a good speaker, and I think that's how he's gotten this far.



You are ABSOLUTELY right! I can't seem to get anyone I know to understand that Clinton was not responsible for the great economy when he was in office. The new President doesn't get into his Oval office, sit down at his chair, and wave a wand and make the economy better in a month. Changes take 5-10 years to have any affect at all. Just like you, it blows my mind that no one seems to understand that.



Oh ya, and I love hearing Obama say he wants to talk with the enemies, not "shun" them or whatever term he used.

Why don't we just all hold hands and sing campfire songs???!

Oh ya...cause some terrorist would blow all the peaceful people up!!!

This is gettin good! :D

We're not all nuts out here - just the majority.

[Maluco]

LOL, WTF...

"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/

[brandondan1]

I think it's important that we do fight for diplomacy. If there were no standards, we would still have the rampant use of chemical agents in warfare, and mass torture(oh wait...) Is torture even constitutional? It seems like we're becoming no better than terrorists.

Sure it's optimistic to want to "talk things out," but someone has to take a stand even if it seems lame. All evil needs to succeed is the indifference of good people, no? Part of the reason why so many countries hate us now is because we just want to shoot our problems into the ground.

I've heard a lot of good points of why Mccain is a good candidate, and I can respect that. However, Obama seems more sincere and is the better choice for me.

[Hallen]

We're not all nuts out here - just the majority.

Dude... are you sure you live in Eugene?

I would have thought the radical left down there would have snagged you out of your bed one night and sent you packing across the DMZ to Springfield by now. If you need help holding the line against the unshaved hords down there, give me a call. I would love to help.

:D

[Hallen]

I think it's important that we do fight for diplomacy. If there were no standards, we would still have the rampant use of chemical agents in warfare, and mass torture(oh wait...) Is torture even constitutional? It seems like we're becoming no better than terrorists.

Sure it's optimistic to want to "talk things out," but someone has to take a stand even if it seems lame. All evil needs to succeed is the indifference of good people, no? Part of the reason why so many countries hate us now is because we just want to shoot our problems into the ground.

I've heard a lot of good points of why Mccain is a good candidate, and I can respect that. However, Obama seems more sincere and is the better choice for me.

Good people who are not packing a big stick and the will to use it will have 0 effect with diplomacy. Thinking otherwise is hoping that the tooth fairy really exists. The world just simply does not work like that.

Obama is a good orator. But so were a lot of other world leaders some of them were great, some were disasters. Obama speaks of "change" just like Bill Clinton did without providing any substance to what he wants to change. Change for change's sake is just stupid. It is political rhetoric that means nothing. If he stood up and said that he won't raise taxes during his term because that is a change we need, if he said he would cut spending and abide by the three golden rules below because that is a change for the better, then maybe he would be a positive for this country. But he won't. He would get in office and start buying votes just like so many others do. He is selling platitudes now, I really don't want to find out what he wants to really sell if he got in office.

The government needs only do 3 things:
Provide for the defence of the nation (the #1 priority)
Provide for the protection of the people (legal system, law enforcement)
Provide for the common good.

It's that last one that gets liberals in trouble. It does not mean universal health care, it does not mean government doles or any other form of redistribution of wealth. It means to provide for things that private entities cannot or will not provide. Interstate roads are an example. Street lights are an example. Massive projects that help the Nation succeed or prosper.

It gets old listening to people complain about how much we spend on the military. It is the primary job of the government. The job of the government is not to directly take care of you... that is your job.

I have plenty of disagreements with hard core conservatives too. I don't want them trying to regulate morality. Morality has to come from a deeper sense and from a person's fortitude, not from the government. Lead by example and set the standard. People will follow... eventually.

[stevofthahill]

holy crap a civilized convo on politics with r3vers? someone bookmark this.

Seriously, holy shit, I just got through reading everything. This thread has had some great enlightening and thoughtful political information being passed around. UofOM3, I think you're spot on about McCain and his priorities. Definitely one of the best threads in OT right now.

[1991 318is]

The thing that bothers me about McCain is the guy's creepiness. He has that strange sort of forced smile that comes out at the most inappropriate times, usually right after describing some horrific scenario like 100 more years in Iraq. How long could you stand to be in a room alone with the guy? I'm not saying that it's the basis on which he should be judged as a possible president. I am saying that somebody should have taken him aside long ago and wised him up as to how totally weird he comes across at times. The fact that he still does it means that he is either clueless or that's how he really is and that's really scary!

[uofom3]

I think it's important that we do fight for diplomacy. If there were no standards, we would still have the rampant use of chemical agents in warfare, and mass torture(oh wait...) Is torture even constitutional? It seems like we're becoming no better than terrorists.

Sure it's optimistic to want to "talk things out," but someone has to take a stand even if it seems lame. All evil needs to succeed is the indifference of good people, no? Part of the reason why so many countries hate us now is because we just want to shoot our problems into the ground.

I've heard a lot of good points of why Mccain is a good candidate, and I can respect that. However, Obama seems more sincere and is the better choice for me.

Well, for starters - we don't engage in biological warfare. I'm assuming you are refering to "agent orange" from the vietnam era. That was an herbicide, but it did ultimately have some bad effects on the people who it was used on. We do not use anthrax, or any other chemical agent on our enemies. It's funny you say that, as I just watched a documentary the other night on History Channel about the VF nerve gas...

No better than terrorists? You live in a bubble. Whatever we dish out at Guantanamo is a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to the shit they do over there. I'm not advocating torture, but I am an advocate of my (and your) security. If it takes railin on one guy to achieve that, so be it. It's weird how all of this works - if you don't start shit you don't have problems; novel idea! It's just like the patriot act... the only reason you'd be against it is if you have something to hide.

Talking it out isn't taking a stand, talking it out is a passification that will get civilians killed. What you are not thinking about here is that you are dealing with people who societally are a few steps above wild animals. they really don't care about you or your diplomacy and would quarter you up to and feed you to the goats the first opportunity they have. Your idealistic vision of this happy wonderland will get you killed, and ruin our country. Step outside your happy place, and realize that they WANT YOU DEAD. Not like somewhat dead, or "haha I'll kill you" dead.... D E A D.

You wouldn't go into gang infested area, get shot at by a bunch of bangers and then talk it out would you? Or maybe you would, and then you'd be dead.

Countries hate us because they are pussies. Plus, they are completely ineffective. We account for the majority of everyones net exports, have agreements with most all of these major players to help them militarily in the event of conflict - and then they piss their idealic bull shit on us. It is just rediculous.

I'm not some war-lord... but statements like this are rooted in some fantasy land that certainly doesn't exist in this world. It's not like we're dealing with a first world, western-european country here... we're dealing with people who live in holes in the side of mountains.

I'm glad you can see the rational with McCain... the problem is you can't rationalize Obama. Liberalism is rooted in feelings; it's not an ideology and that's why it's hard to rationalize - how do you rationalize the unrational?

Hope in one hand, shit in the other... see which one fills up first.

[uofom3]

The thing that bothers me about McCain is the guy's creepiness. He has that strange sort of forced smile that comes out at the most inappropriate times, usually right after describing some horrific scenario like 100 more years in Iraq. How long could you stand to be in a room alone with the guy? I'm not saying that it's the basis on which he should be judged as a possible president. I am saying that somebody should have taken him aside long ago and wised him up as to how totally weird he comes across at times. The fact that he still does it means that he is either clueless or that's how he really is and that's really scary!

I don't see it... maybe it's because I'm blinded by his decent thinking and bi-partisan ways...

[DarkWing6]

Ted, I agree with you. I just have a hard time supporting McCain because he is very different from the Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee canidates I was/am backing. With both of them basically out of it it is coming down to essentially deciding between Obama and McCain (the better of two bads, IMO). Do you know of any good places or websites to get a good comparison on each of their viewpoints or can you give me an unbiased comparison of the two of them?

[E30 Wagen]

And one last thing about diplomacy- it has its place, and should have been used more effectively on the path to war. (War is politics carried out by other means- Karl Von Clausewitz)

But, keep in mind that those you want to talk with don't always want to talk with you. Diplomacy works if both parties have respect for each other as civil nations, and regard each other in similar terms. This doesn't apply to those trying to kill us. So, while you talk to them and plead with them, I'll be flying either the jet that kills the people waiting to kill you, the jet that shuts down their communications so they can't talk to each other, or the helicopter that's gonna get filled with bullet holes trying to get you out when you see that "they don't want to reason" and suddenly you're surrounded by men with beards, turbans, and AK-47's.

Haha, how heroic of you, thank you for saving me from those evil folks in mid east.

Seriously, who is that afraid of being attacked in such a way? ...and suddenly you're surrounded by men with beards, turbans, and AK-47's... Are you listening to yourself think? That is never going to happen, even if we straight up pull all of our troops out. They have no navy, no air force, pretty much nothing remotely capable of injuring the US in a way that would be more devastating than 9/11. They are nowhere near as organized as we are (militarily) and in fact they are dealing with civil wars of their own over there. It would take all their resources to pull off anything, and I guarantee you that it isn't going to be a covert ambush of guys with beards and AK suddenly popping out of bushes and killing the people at a McD's drivethru.

I remember my dad was having a conversation with a very conservative republican about how he was glad that Bush was in office because if Kerry had won, we would have been taken over by Russia by now. Are you people really that paranoid? The more that we increase our "national security," the greater a target we are making ourselves. Idiots.

[uofom3]

Haha, how heroic of you, thank you for saving me from those evil folks in mid east.

Seriously, who is that afraid of being attacked in such a way? ...and suddenly you're surrounded by men with beards, turbans, and AK-47's... Are you listening to yourself think? That is never going to happen, even if we straight up pull all of our troops out. They have no navy, no air force, pretty much nothing remotely capable of injuring the US in a way that would be more devastating than 9/11. They are nowhere near as organized as we are (militarily) and in fact they are dealing with civil wars of their own over there. It would take all their resources to pull off anything, and I guarantee you that it isn't going to be a covert ambush of guys with beards and AK suddenly popping out of bushes and killing the people at a McD's drivethru.

I remember my dad was having a conversation with a very conservative republican about how he was glad that Bush was in office because if Kerry had won, we would have been taken over by Russia by now. Are you people really that paranoid? The more that we increase our "national security," the greater a target we are making ourselves. Idiots.

You're right, we won't have men with long beards and turbans and ak-47's attack us here. They don't have the means to get here, and we wouldn't let that kind of thing happen anyway.

You are wrong about not being able to do anything worse than 9/11. Small nuclear weapons sold by the soviets and other formerly powerful nations are a very real threat. One of the biggest concerns is nuclear armsfalling into the hands of these people. I realize that this sounds like something out of 24, so I'm not going to defend that. I am saying that this is a very realistic problem they is being addressed.

You are discussing a frontal attack, standard warfare. This is not how they operate. They will let out some kind of gas, bomb subways, etc. It's a guerilla strategy; because as you pointed out, they don't have the resources or ability to take it straight to us.

That guy who says we would have been taken over by Russia is just as insane as you are for thinking that we have absolutely no threat from terrorist operations around the world. There is a lunatic fringe on both sides... and they sound equally retarded. However, Russia would love nothing more than to become the dominant super power in the world again (as a realistic side-note).

You really think we are bigger target with a larger national security initiative? What kind of pot do you smoke? Put down the bong and think about this before you become some peacenic. This has nothing to do with paranoia, it has to do with being smart about the situation. There is a reason why you diversify your money in investing, right? because putting your eggs in one basket would not be smart in a time of crisis? National security is no different... TSA, anti-terrorist devisions, CIA, etc... we have diversified our operation because the threat is on many fronts. In WW2, we knew who the bad guys were. They were right there infront of us. Today, it requires much different means of detecting and dealing a an enemy that 90% of the time we cannot see.

I'm sorry but you sound like a complete fool for saying "I guarantee you that it isn't going to be a covert ambush of guys with beards and AK suddenly popping out of bushes and killing the people at a McD's drivethru." If you really think this is what all of this is all about, you are so far off base you really shouldn't think about it anymore.

It sounds to me like you are OK with taking the occassional 5000 civilian terrorist hit (i.e. 911) just as a cost of doing business, and assuming the rest of the time everything is OK. I'm sure you'll have the opinion until someone in your family gets blown to a million pieces, it it directly impacts your life; then you'll wonder why the government didn't do more to prevent it.

[uofom3]

Ted, I agree with you. I just have a hard time supporting McCain because he is very different from the Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee canidates I was/am backing. With both of them basically out of it it is coming down to essentially deciding between Obama and McCain (the better of two bads, IMO). Do you know of any good places or websites to get a good comparison on each of their viewpoints or can you give me an unbiased comparison of the two of them?

I understand your situation. Let me formulate my personal thoughts on this and I'll try and do a writeup on it tonight. I know I'm a bit of a pundant, but my pundancy is (at least attempted to be) formulated through analysis.

One other interesting note from today's readings,etc. Obama finally stated some things he wants to accomplish economically:

1) Remove taxation (income taxation I believe) for people who make less than 75k per year, and people who are over 65 and make less than 55k per year.
2) Increase the minimum wage drastically, annually, to keep up with inflation.
3) Effectively "Stick it" to CEO's and major corporations by taxing the bejesus out of them.
4) Remove tax cuts given to small business, corporations, and the "wealthly"

He also stated that he wants to:
- Keep American jobs in the US
- Make sure working Americans all get what they deserve because they are working and should be compensated more handsomly.

Any budding economists out there see the GLARRING problem with this whole set of ideals? This guy clearly skipped his Public Economics classes....

[dinanm3atl]

I find it funny that the general media is fueling his hype. When you have reporters all excited to be reporting on him. That is extremely sad, report the news, don't get involved in it.

Then switch back to boring dull report for McCain and Hilary. It is quite humorous. Wonder who the media wants to win?