Obama Campaign Theatrics --- woman faints @ rallies a scam?

[uofom3]

ted, do you read? have you been to other countries? im not trying to slight you, i'm serious. isolationism? this isn't the 1920's, and you're not henry cabot lodge sitting in the corner of congress getting handjobs from xenophobes, are you? there's a difference between sound foreign policy and isolationism. globalization is something that the conservatives secretly love but publicly hate. i never understood this. (thank tom friedman for that one.) we have our hands in every part of the globe, economically and politically. to advocate isolationism is not only dumb but impossible. goodbye 725+ military installations in 130 countries. see you later free trade (which is the cornerstone, haha ok shield, of global thought).it doesnt make sense.

i would love to buy you a beer and talk shit like this all day.

OK, you got me... I needed to clarify this further.

How about "more" "isolationist-ish". No, but seriously - I suppose I'm supporting the idea that we needed to take a slightly more hands off approach. Like it or not, the US is the glue that holds a lot of things together in this world. I just feel that we need to be more concerned with domestic issues than international ones.

There are terrible things that happen everyday around the world - particularly in Africa and some parts of South America. I can't simply turn a blind eye to those issues - but we face a lot of problems inside our own country that are more pressing on the lives of the people who I deal with.

Lets handle shit at home first - then worry about the other problems abroad. It doesn't make sense to think of it any other way. This kind of logic should have been applied to the Iraq situation in the first place... would have saved us a lot of time and money.

Pasha - I'd hook you up with a beer any time; this stuff is a rabbit hole to start discussing.

[Pinepig]

Republicans are doing a great job with the economy - talk to your buddies in the house and senate about helping to "get things done"

Pointlessly taking them away? I agree with Iraq being a problem, but it is no longer a war; it's an occupation. Leaving there would create a shit storm that would ultimately make even leftest of lefties shit themselves when the fallout actually came down.

Conservatives don't lack empathy; they have self-motivation.

So you're supposed to vote for Obama because he's a bastard child? what the hell does that have to do with shit?

Policies favorable with the common man?

What do you know about economics? geo-economics? Lets take a look at every socialized nation that decides that will solve economic problems (socialization). Do some reading about the economy in Spain, as well as the now flogged to death problems with the Canadian healthcare system - this isn't rocket science.

You're right about McCain - he's not going to raise taxes, he will create an environment that allows small business to grow, and will generally reduce the role of government in your life. Lets take a look at the 50's and 60's - those were arguably some of the most prosperous times in our nations history from an economic standpoint. Guess what? even the leftest of left demo's at the time would look moderate by comparison to the whack jobs that are out there today. The same can be said for both sides, however.

The dems will move America to destruction for several reasons:

- Weak Foreign Policy; Obama wants to "talk" with the oppostion? WTF is he thinking? these people strap bombs to retarded women and blow them up to kill civilians. and you want to TALK? I'm not saying take it to them, but I am saying that talking just isn't a solution. There are bad people in this world, and you have to speak in a language that they understand - and that sure as hell is not diplomacy

- Military Incompetence; these people are cheering our soldiers to defeat. that is not good for the country and they should be ashamed of themselves.

-Taxes - Just remember, every time that they tax something else, that will ultimately lead further to the taxation and regulation of everything; which leads me to my final point.....

-SOCIALISM! LET ME MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS! Socialization will destroy our country. Look at EVERY SOCILIZED COUNTRY THAT THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN.... this shit DOES NOT WORK. A free market economy generates more freedom, wealth, opportunity, and happiness ONTHE WHOLE than any other form that can be realistically implemented. I could write for pages on why this is a horrible idea.


People don't get it - the healthcare thing especially. For instance... lets say you find a bum on the side of the road nearly dead. you call the cops, they come with an ambulance and haul him off to the ER. they treat and release him (I believe they are legally obligated to do so). He doesn't have insurance - so who pays for it? THE TAX PAYERS! Why? Because states ALREADY HAVE funds SET ASIDE to pay for these circumstances - if you pay taxes, you helped pay for his visit. The bum got the same care that I would get with my Blue Cross health insurance coverage. This shit already exists...

Don't even get started on "wealth redistribution" or ANYTHING pertaining to increased taxation for the wealthy or increases in minimum wage - who the hell do you think pays yours and my salaries? it isn't me - and if the guy paying them has more money, there is a greater chance that you and I will earn more - and all increasing minimum wage does is push more jobs overseas, raise the unemployment rate, decrease the GDP through a decline in net exports, and increase crime rates/poverty.

The dems bitch about money, yet they think the only way to solve problems is the throw more of it at the problem! oh, the irony....

A bunch of the younger guys on this sites heads just exploded. Well done.:D

[e30sd]

ted i share your viewpoint to some extent, but solving the middle east problem is deeper than they hate us why are we talking to them? the current situation (afghanistan, taliban, not so much iran) is one of the greatest intelligence failures evar. it seems as soon was our interest was complete (killing soviets and chasing waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles in kabul) we were out. this in itself is where the problem begin. to understand the thing you have to put it into context. check out this book ghost wars, it is a decent look at some background. i agree of course suicide bombing, innocent deaths, all these things are horrible and i would never defend these cretains. but in order to understand this further you really have devote yourself as a student of foreign policy. im not saying obama is or has proven any track record, but mccain? neither has he. frankly, neither of them realize that even with the faults of IGO's like the UN, we cannot take unilateral action. GWOT requires many players, support systems, and infrastructures so that we can share the burden instead of spending like it's a coked up hotel party in vegas.

[Sean]

Holy shit, uofom3...dude, you're awesome. Everything you say is soo spot on! I'm so insanely shocked you're in Oregon! I thought everyone there was hippies. Or is that Washington? ;-)

Although, I have to say that globalization is pretty key these days. Like, for CAT, they are building and producing in China, Korea, France, etc - because that's where the customers are. It's just part of making a business stronger and being able to compete in the world market.

He's not Muslim? Thought he was. In that case, Id definitely choose him over Clinton. For the poster who said "white baptist", thatd also be incorrect. It's typically a christian run nation, its just the way it is. But I personally dont care what color or religion they are, as long as its not Muslim.... Or female sex. It could be a white muslim, and Id be opposed. Its probably me being naive or ignorant to all of this, but a Muslim leading our country just seems odd.

I think what goes on here is Obama LOVES to bring up that's he, himself, is a melting pot of multiple races. His father was in africa or something, his mom was something else - blah blah. Obama doesn't know anything about how to run a country, he's a moron. He's just a good speaker, and I think that's how he's gotten this far.

What most people fail to realize is that often, presidents reap the benefits of the president that proceeded them. Bush Sr. reaped the benefits of Reagan's economic plan- Clinton reaped the benefits of Bush/Reagan- and Bush was hurt by some of Clinton's policies. (But, I'm not defending Bush here- I don't think his administration has done very well, to be waay too optimistic.) Also, the country's economy is not driven by the president- there are plenty of natural market forces that are completely out of the president's control.

McCain would support "republican" values to be sure. Those are: small, limited government, limited government spending, a strong, secure State, and limited involvement in other countries' business so long as we secure the freedom of the country here at home. the so-called republicans in office now, that most people associate with the title, have let themselves slip away from what their party once stood for.

You are ABSOLUTELY right! I can't seem to get anyone I know to understand that Clinton was not responsible for the great economy when he was in office. The new President doesn't get into his Oval office, sit down at his chair, and wave a wand and make the economy better in a month. Changes take 5-10 years to have any affect at all. Just like you, it blows my mind that no one seems to understand that.



Oh ya, and I love hearing Obama say he wants to talk with the enemies, not "shun" them or whatever term he used.

Why don't we just all hold hands and sing campfire songs???!

Oh ya...cause some terrorist would blow all the peaceful people up!!!

This is gettin good! :D

[e30sd]

You are ABSOLUTELY right! I can't seem to get anyone I know to understand that Clinton was not responsible for the great economy when he was in office. The new President doesn't get into his Oval office, sit down at his chair, and wave a wand and make the economy better in a month. Changes take 5-10 years to have any affect at all. Just like you, it blows my mind that no one seems to understand that.

clinton was no saint, but he didn't blow an $80 billion surplus in seconds.

[Sean]

clinton was no saint, but he didn't blow an $80 billion surplus in seconds.

Not saying Bush has been great either. lol But, I don't hate him like 80% of the country.

[rwh11385]

I sent this one hardcore liberal chick I know an article regarding why socialized healthcare is not an effective way to administer healthcare - both in the quality of care and the economic ramifications. She responded, "Oh, you know I don't read stuff"..... then how the HELL do you know anything about wtf is going on then?

/rant.

I say bring back tests at the poles! [srsly]

Free ER care sounds great! ... until you break your foot you think and don't get looked at for 6 hours. My friend went through that this summer in the UK. I love how people support different social programs without ANY conceptualization of their real effects.

The best candidate that I see out there right now is McCain.

welll, duuuuuh ;) hopefully the rest of the nation will feel the same way :D

[E30 Wagen]

I can just picture Obama sitting in the oval office the first day with a constipated look on his face thinking to himself, "Oh shit, I actually won. Now what?"

[Ral]

e30sd, While I still think that the Bush administration has acted extremely immature and irresponsible (like giving a 14 year old 6 hours at the mall with Daddy's Platinum credit card kind of irresponsible), There's more to the story that you, me, and almost everyone within the country that's not directly involved in running the country would know. So, I'm not sure that argument is completely fair given the world events Bush has had to find his way through that Clinton didn't do.

Not defending Bush, just trying to interject some perspective.

[rwh11385]

Look at our economy right now, and tell me that the republicans are doing a good job.

The republicans are doing a good job.

[Sean]

You know, I'm kinda wondering the same thing Navy - there's got to be a ton of information that the general public has no idea about.

I'd laugh if when Hilliary or Obama get in, and don't leave Iraq, because they learned of some secret military things that only the president knows about.

[Ral]

And one last thing about diplomacy- it has its place, and should have been used more effectively on the path to war. (War is politics carried out by other means- Karl Von Clausewitz)

But, keep in mind that those you want to talk with don't always want to talk with you. Diplomacy works if both parties have respect for each other as civil nations, and regard each other in similar terms. This doesn't apply to those trying to kill us. So, while you talk to them and plead with them, I'll be flying either the jet that kills the people waiting to kill you, the jet that shuts down their communications so they can't talk to each other, or the helicopter that's gonna get filled with bullet holes trying to get you out when you see that "they don't want to reason" and suddenly you're surrounded by men with beards, turbans, and AK-47's.

[e30sd]

e30sd, While I still think that the Bush administration has acted extremely immature and irresponsible (like giving a 14 year old 6 hours at the mall with Daddy's Platinum credit card kind of irresponsible), There's more to the story that you, me, and almost everyone within the country that's not directly involved in running the country would know. So, I'm not sure that argument is completely fair given the world events Bush has had to find his way through that Clinton didn't do.

Not defending Bush, just trying to interject some perspective.

navy, US foreign policy is no secret. that's the astounding part, there is no attempt to keep it secret. ever read the national review? heard of william kristol? ever see a press conference with the background "american enterprise institute?" im sure there is some justification for carrying policy like it's been. frontline did a piece on the cheney white house a while back. these people actually believe they are doing the right thing, that expansion of executive power unchecked is not a bad thing. using the DIA as a framework for domestic espionage, nevermind pissing off the CIA cause they already did it, but moreso the Fibs and the strict constructionists who are outraged by the use of the constitution as a doormat to the office of special plans at the pentagon. navy, i gather you are in the armed forces and i thank you for your service. but I like you am a patriot. i love this country. i think it has been an excellent example of how a liberal democracy can function well. but allowing this line of progression (degression?) to continue would border on treachery. seriously. being a patriot means defending your country. with a force, or with words. a lot can be done to ensure regional and international security if we do let someone talk. i'm not advocating no war. fuck no, we need AFSOC, SOCOM, and all that cool covert shit. all i'm saying is that unilateral action affords us no leverage in an international playing field. the days of american hegemony may be ending, is that such a bad thing? is it worth trashing the ideals this country was based on? maybe, maybe not. depends what bumper sticker you're rocking.

[e30sd]

lol nice clausewitz quote, you watch crimson tide again?+

[Ral]

lol nice clausewitz quote, you watch crimson tide again?+

Nope, the only thing I remember (well, sort of) from writing a 15-page paper last semester. And for the record- FUCK. SUBMARINES. They may get paid a lot, but there's no price on daylight. Or, not being anal-retentive. Or, anal virginity, for that matter.

And, I agree. I wasn't arguing for the "cowboy" approach to foreign policy as it seems to have been practiced so far. But, given the global environment we're in (and the people trying to kill us), you have to recognize that there will be some with whom diplomacy won't work. Aside from that (i.e. airspace/base utilization, operations within foreign countries, etc) it's essential and should have been dealt with using more care.