Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[mrsleeve]

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read the rest of my post.

[CorvallisBMW]

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The sun is not a constant, sun spots, solar flares, among many other things affect the solar out put on a hour by hour basis.

Exactly. It changes hourly/daily, not at an exponentialy growing rate trending back 100 years.

[mrsleeve]

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The sun is not a constant, sun spots, solar flares, among many other things affect the solar out put on a hour by hour basis.

Ok here is another tid bit of the earth you might want to consider. Our orbit is just a touch too close to the sun to have a perfectly consistant weather, so the ball of dirt goes through cycles, now we have good weather records for the last 125 years of the 4.5 billion years of weather on this ball of dirt. We have no idea the long term cycles of the weather pattens. We know that there have been numerous ice ages as well as times of global warming.

Let me some it up with out going in to great detail.

all before humans had an effect.

A period of warming for several decades melts the ice caps and glaicers around the world, dumping tons of cold fresh water into the north atlantic. That in turn shuts off the Gulf stream that keeps much of northern europe warmer than it would be with out it.
That leads to longer winters which leave snow on the ground longer thus reflecting more an more sunlight energy away from the ground. This over the course of several decades to hundred years trips a massive cooling effect an puts the earth on track for a ice age. now with all the fresh water in the world tied up in massive glaicers cover much of the temprate zones of the earth that reflects lots of heat away. But being that the earths orbit is just a tad too close the sun the tropics heat up very well still an the gulf stream slowly starts up again. thus warming northern europe which over the cource of several hundread years the glaciers slowly retreat an the atmo slowly warms up to what we know as normal weather. and then the cycle begins again.

Now I have never said we dont have any influence but its so small it not worth putting into the equation. This is a debate that many of you know nothing anything about save for what AL has told you. I take science over propaganda any day of the week an so many people have taken all this climate change propaganda hook line an sinker, its sicking too me.

[CorvallisBMW]

CO2 has gone up yes but thats not causing the earth to get hotter.


copy and pasted from my other post in the earth day thread because I dont wan to type it all again

You guys need to relize something WE DONT have near the impact on this ball of dirt you would like to think we do. Its that BIG ASS GLOWING ORB that just out our cosmic back yard that is causing the climate change. Its not just getting hotter here on this ball of dirt mars is heating up at about the same rate, now tell me why thats happing, is it because we put a car or two on that planet tooo. I dont think so it the god dammed SUN its going through a hotter phase, its not the 1st nor will it be the last. Unstable weather was the norm for this ball of dirt save for the last 100000 years, that stabilty is the not the norm but the exception to the rule of our climate, there is not a fucking thing that can be done about it all the Green inventions wont help one iota because we cant control the fucking SUN

Yeah, I've heard people argue that too. Until you look at the data and realize that the output of the sun ISN'T CHANGING.

[mrsleeve]

Agreed. Earth has always had natural climactic fluctuations. But the rate of change has accelerated to over 100x the normal rate, so obviously we are having some kind of effect.

H2O vapor does act as a greenhouse gas, but the amount of it in the atmosphere hasn't been changing so it doesn't have any net effect. It's the CO2 that has gone up to crazy concentrations, that's what is causing the climactic changes.

CO2 has gone up yes but thats not causing the earth to get hotter.


copy and pasted from my other post in the earth day thread because I dont wan to type it all again

You guys need to relize something WE DONT have near the impact on this ball of dirt you would like to think we do. Its that BIG ASS GLOWING ORB that just out our cosmic back yard that is causing the climate change. Its not just getting hotter here on this ball of dirt mars is heating up at about the same rate, now tell me why thats happing, is it because we put a car or two on that planet tooo. I dont think so it the god dammed SUN its going through a hotter phase, its not the 1st nor will it be the last. Unstable weather was the norm for this ball of dirt save for the last 100000 years, that stabilty is the not the norm but the exception to the rule of our climate, there is not a fucking thing that can be done about it all the Green inventions wont help one iota because we cant control the fucking SUN

[mrsleeve]

Dude, that sounds like a bunch of crap. H20 covers like 75% of the earth...so you're saying that the weather cycle of earth if global warming?!

When I boil water, I'm destroying the Earth?! OMG!!! NOOO!!! I released h20 vapor into the air the other night when I boiled my dinner!!

Back that up with facts, and I might believe you. But, in case you don't know, vapor condenses and turns into rain...or freezes and falls as snow. But, you bring in some scientific reasoning to back this up, and I'll be happy to consider such an idea. But right now, it seems pretty illogical to me!

sorry its no the link I was looking for but it ought to help you get my point. Water vapor is the earths largest and most effective greenhouse gas, most occurring from natural sources. Now if you have 10 million cars running around pumping tons more H2O vapors in to the atmo everyday this ball of dirt will turn into a sauna.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

google water vapor greenhouse gas you will find many a link to all that I have said.

[CorvallisBMW]

personally, i don't know how much of an impact we humans have, i'm sure we've accelerated global warming to some degree, but i also believe that the earth just naturally goes through climatic changes of it's own.

Agreed. Earth has always had natural climactic fluctuations. But the rate of change has accelerated to over 100x the normal rate, so obviously we are having some kind of effect.

H2O vapor does act as a greenhouse gas, but the amount of it in the atmosphere hasn't been changing so it doesn't have any net effect. It's the CO2 that has gone up to crazy concentrations, that's what is causing the climactic changes.

[n2motorsports]

has anyone seen "expedition alaska?" that's some worrisome stuff. areas that were once capped by glaicers are now sprouting up methane gas. polar bears and grizzly's are interbreeding (a hybrid was shot and killed last year).
personally, i don't know how much of an impact we humans have, i'm sure we've accelerated global warming to some degree, but i also believe that the earth just naturally goes through climatic changes of it's own.

[Sean]

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WTF are you talking about. The moonshine that made people go blind during prohibition was not really moon shine it was commercially available Rubbing alcohol thats made from wood not grain. Wood alcohol is waht makes you go blind and since the govt. banned normal spirits they turned to rubbing alcohol.

that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Now go sit in a fucking green house that is full of h20 vapors in the middle of summer tell me how that feels. Plants put tons upon tons of H2O in the the atmo everyday, through transpiration and you want millions of car to do the same, the whole planet will be a damm cloud thats hlolding all the fucking heat in. Ever notice in winter (or summer for that matter) nearly all cloudy nights are warmer than clear nights??? Want to know why that is clouds are H2O vapor and are acting as a blanket holding in the heat.

edit: real Kentucky moon shine is made form corn there sparky.

Dude, that sounds like a bunch of crap. H20 covers like 75% of the earth...so you're saying that the weather cycle of earth if global warming?!

When I boil water, I'm destroying the Earth?! OMG!!! NOOO!!! I released h20 vapor into the air the other night when I boiled my dinner!!

Back that up with facts, and I might believe you. But, in case you don't know, vapor condenses and turns into rain...or freezes and falls as snow. But, you bring in some scientific reasoning to back this up, and I'll be happy to consider such an idea. But right now, it seems pretty illogical to me!

[Pinepig]

I'm not going to bag on someone for wanting to make a buck, but at some point it needs to be looked at for the good of the economy as a whole. A small business owner trying to increase market share is a much different capitalistic animal than those who have the ability to cripple an entire financial market.

I heard some great analysis the other day that I agreed with. They were saying that basically we as a society have been sold out on this oil thing by both the liberals and the conervatives.

The liberals have sold us out because we can't drill in a lot of places that we know have oil, nor are they big on using the national oil reserve; both of these things drasitcally hurt out supply which drives up the price.

The republicans have sold us out by not regulating prices and letting the oil companies run up their profits (brining in the speculators like Lee mentioned).

So, I guess it just depends on which one you fine more frustrating - but the net result is no different.

Don't blame the repubs for not enacting price controls, you dig on them for something else if you like.

They tried it once and guess what, there was no gas to be bought.

[rwh11385]

And then I came back to the table with this;

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...e=search_story

yes. and the worldwide hunger riots are caused solely by a few nations using ethanol to power their cars

has nothing to do with Chinese growth and their increase of appetite with their greater income taking food from poorer nations...

[uofom3]

Yup. Speculation on commodities.

Fuel is a commodity. So is rice and wheat. Money hungry Wall Street bastards trying to make a few bucks. What's next? Air?

I'm not going to bag on someone for wanting to make a buck, but at some point it needs to be looked at for the good of the economy as a whole. A small business owner trying to increase market share is a much different capitalistic animal than those who have the ability to cripple an entire financial market.

I heard some great analysis the other day that I agreed with. They were saying that basically we as a society have been sold out on this oil thing by both the liberals and the conervatives.

The liberals have sold us out because we can't drill in a lot of places that we know have oil, nor are they big on using the national oil reserve; both of these things drasitcally hurt out supply which drives up the price.

The republicans have sold us out by not regulating prices and letting the oil companies run up their profits (brining in the speculators like Lee mentioned).

So, I guess it just depends on which one you fine more frustrating - but the net result is no different.

[Massive Lee]

Yup. Speculation on commodities.

Fuel is a commodity. So is rice and wheat. Money hungry Wall Street bastards trying to make a few bucks. What's next? Air?

[Farbin Kaiber]

And then I came back to the table with this;

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/23/earlyshow/main4036816.shtml?source=search_story

The hottest seller at that Costco at the moment? Fifty-pound bags of jasmine rice -- even though rice's price has gone through the roof. A 20 pound bag that sold for $9 just two months ago now goes for $16.

Other groceries are also way up over this time last year: flour by 13 percent, milk by 10 percent and eggs by 30 percent.

[monty]

Im just saying I think research should go more towards the solar side of things. Solar isnt just the sun, its all forms of natural energy including wind and water. If they can use chromosomes to clone sheep, then they should be able to take the greenhouse gas, filter it somehow, and make it more efficient.