Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[uofom3]

False. There's a lot of great countries in Europe and they do a lot more to do less wasteful things, and it's not a burden but rather a cultural care for doing such. People make a lot of negative choices out of laziness, not freedom, unless you support the freedom to be lazy. The changes sometimes are very small and could have a great impact overall, but people like to stick to the status quo out of stubbornness.

We do have freedom, but should we not also have responsibility?

I'm not saying that they don't do more, but I'm saying that I don't think you can say that other societies are not as wasteful by-in-large.

And I do support the freedom to be lazy; it's called choice. What, is the government supposed to make it illegal to be lazy an unemployed? Common. I'm not lazy in the least, but that doesn't mean that everyone else has to be as driven as I am.

Responsibility is a whole different matter. I recycle because it's the logical thing to do. That's why my parents recycle, my neighbors recycle, etc. I think by putting it into this societal "responsibility" is you imposing your beliefs on other people. Don't make it a right or wrong thing, make it a smart or stupid thing I guess is what I'm saying.

It's not smart to be wasteful from an eco/economic/etc. perspective. there are a LOT of reasons to NOT be wasteful - but who am I to impose my feelings about that on others? no one. And neither are you, or the government. by that logic, I'd tell people buying new Kia's to go buy e30's for 1/3 the price and get reasonable gas mileage and cheap transportation. I'd encourage families to not use disposable diapers for their children, but rather a cloth diaper from a diaper service. I'd suggest that people do more to care for their lawn so that it doesn't take as much water to keep healthy and green, etc.

Gasoline in cars is the least of our worries - lets get serious about alternative engergies for homes, more recycling, and better management of peoples "waste". The funny thing is, if you put it in dollars that people are wasting by being wasteful, I think you'd have a much better impact than talking about the environment. That would make it more tangible for the average joe, and would ultimately achieve the end of the helping the environment.

I don't want to destroy anything, but I'm not willing to impose my beliefs on others or get more government regulation to solve these problems.

[CorvallisBMW]

False. There's a lot of great countries in Europe and they do a lot more to do less wasteful things, and it's not a burden but rather a cultural care for doing such. People make a lot of negative choices out of laziness, not freedom, unless you support the freedom to be lazy. The changes sometimes are very small and could have a great impact overall, but people like to stick to the status quo out of stubbornness.

We do have freedom, but should we not also have responsibility?

Agreed. Your freedom to be wasteful ends when it hurts other people. It's like the calssic example: "I may have the freedom to swing my fist through the air, but that freedom stops at your face"

Case in point. About ten years ago when the beginning of the 'Big Dry' drought hit in Australia, the gov't mandated that all toilets be 'dual-flush', which use a smaller amount of water for 'number 1's' and a larger amount for 'number 2's'. To date, they estimate that it has saved over 10 GIGA liters of water. Now, did that regulation infringe upon your ability to take a shit? i think not. It's a perfect example of gov't taking necessary, responsible actions to protect the wellbeing of it's citizens. No liberty was trampled on, no one died from a lack of personal freedom and every single person in the whole country is better off because of it.

It's amazing that the same people who advocate being responsible for your own life (ie health insurance, etc) can't stand the idea of taking responsibility for your actions when it comes to the environment. Is personal responsibility really that selective?

[rwh11385]

A grand example is beer. Our beer is often sold in cans. Cans that typically are thrown in a dumpster. Besides the homeless guy who collects these from the dumpster and turns them in, we throw this away. Sure, crushing and recycling the cans would be a little more effort but we can't do this because we're free not to.

Even when it's glass, the bottles are tossed in the trash, or occasionally thrown at something.

In Germany, arguably a more social country and more concerned with the environment, even Pepsi bottles are given a deposit back when returned and waste is not created. Beer bottles are returned, cleaned, and refilled. Sure we'd have to develop "back-shipping" but it would not have to have as much creation of new bottles. Kegs are much more efficient at reducing waste, but create trouble for some. Beer is just one example I've seen in America that others in first-world countries have done better.

If we can live easy lives and throw things away after one use, we tend to do it. Maybe we can afford to do so, but not trying to make a difference in our lifestyle is somewhat arrogant. Ted, your response sounded like a spoiled brat saying "I don't have to, I don't wanna". And that's the image of Americans to some people in the world.

A few states may have more recycling efforts (Michigan with can deposits) but for many, we create tons of waste everyday that is not necessary.

[rwh11385]

We are a rather wasteful society - but just about every first-world society is. The reality is, it's not that we're blatantly wasteful and evil, it's that we're the first society in thei history of civilization that can really afford to be wasteful and thus we do it. The ancient Romans might not have recycled their water bottles if they didn't see any immediate impacts of not doing so, ya know? This isn't so much a justification as it is a truthful observation.

Finally, lets say it IS a justification for the "throw away" American lifestyle. So what? It's a free-fuckin-country. If I want to throw away something, I'm allowed to do it - it's freedom. When the government starts mandating/heavily regulating the stuff that provides us with the power to live our lives (not just oil...), as well as regulates how we use that power; freedom is taken away. Once one freedom is taken away, then what's next? Can't bear fire arms any more? Can't drive e30's on public roads? Pay a bodily carbon emissions fee for farting/breathing heavily? Crude examples, but you see my point.

False. There's a lot of great countries in Europe and they do a lot more to do less wasteful things, and it's not a burden but rather a cultural care for doing such. People make a lot of negative choices out of laziness, not freedom, unless you support the freedom to be lazy. The changes sometimes are very small and could have a great impact overall, but people like to stick to the status quo out of stubbornness.

We do have freedom, but should we not also have responsibility?

[Joey Link]

^ Amen

[uofom3]

We Americans are wasteful. You know you can't deny it.

I like to stay pretty neutral so I can observe the facts that presented from both sides...

But, the more arguments that I see coming from the "Anti-Global Warming," crowd, the more suspicious I become that their interpretations of the data they find isn't to debunk global warming but instead are used to defend their comfortable American lifestyle.

Am I wrong?

Yeah, you are wrong in my personal case.

In reality, I do recycle paper and plastic bottles, my oils/fluids from the car, don't "rage" on the v8 everyday, buy mostly recycledproducts for school, keep most things off when not home, and try and take care of my stuff so I don't have to buy something else/use more resources.

I also advocate alternative energys such as hydro/wind/solar/wave/tidal power.

My whole issue comes in that these people are basically blowing the entire situation out of proportion, and are attempting to infring upon my liberty as a human being to make certain decisions about how I want to live my life. If I want to drive an SUV, and can afford the insurance/gas/maintenance - why the hell shouldn't I? If I want to drink bottled water because it's less likely to get my sick than drinking out of public drinking fountains - I should be able to do that as well.

We are a rather wasteful society - but just about every first-world society is. The reality is, it's not that we're blatantly wasteful and evil, it's that we're the first society in thei history of civilization that can really afford to be wasteful and thus we do it. The ancient Romans might not have recycled their water bottles if they didn't see any immediate impacts of not doing so, ya know? This isn't so much a justification as it is a truthful observation.

Finally, lets say it IS a justification for the "throw away" American lifestyle. So what? It's a free-fuckin-country. If I want to throw away something, I'm allowed to do it - it's freedom. When the government starts mandating/heavily regulating the stuff that provides us with the power to live our lives (not just oil...), as well as regulates how we use that power; freedom is taken away. Once one freedom is taken away, then what's next? Can't bear fire arms any more? Can't drive e30's on public roads? Pay a bodily carbon emissions fee for farting/breathing heavily? Crude examples, but you see my point.

It's kind of like people who don't understand that a tax on one good commodity is ultimately a tax on every good/commodity. For instance, if you don't smoke and say "YA! Tobacco tax to help fund education - that's a great idea! Stick it to those smokers!", and you generate that revenue, you'd think it's a great cause. Wrong. Now that good has a tax on it, and the government can find something else to tax. maybe this time they started taxing medium priced steaks at your local grocery store and you happen to be a hell of a carnivore. Now you say, "well wtf man? You just taxed cigs - why beef?" The answer? because you let them tax cigs - they now feel that they can tax anything else.

The most wasteful part of american society is government spending.

[Ray McCooney]

Most of my E30's have been hybrids. They burn a combination of gas and oil.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In my case yes you are wrong.


I will gladly change to anything, that is a viable equivalent power source. Most everything that has been brought up as a alternitve is just as bad if not worse, in one way or another. A wolf in sheep's clothing if you will

[E30 Wagen]

We Americans are wasteful. You know you can't deny it.

I like to stay pretty neutral so I can observe the facts that presented from both sides...

But, the more arguments that I see coming from the "Anti-Global Warming," crowd, the more suspicious I become that their interpretations of the data they find isn't to debunk global warming but instead are used to defend their comfortable American lifestyle.

Am I wrong?

[Joey Link]

Because you are indirectly part of the problem by consuming just about anything.

The only way you are NOT part of the problem is to live in the forest with no modern anything, basically.

Nah man, shit in the woods and those greenies would still flip out...

[mrsleeve]

Because you are indirectly part of the problem by consuming just about anything.

The only way you are NOT part of the problem is to live in the forest with no modern anything, basically.

On that note did anyone watch the thing on netgeo, "The Human Foot Print"

I will say its kinda neat idea but the guilt trip it tries to play on you is just outta line along with the its all your fault overtones rub me the wrong way. Through out the entire show the narration an the general gist of it tries to make you feel guilty for 1: being alive 2: being human and 3: living a normal life in a modern society. It just pissed me off to watch it.

[uofom3]

In light of everything said on here and in light of everything that I see about global warming in the media, I have to ask a question- Why is global warming MY problem? Can someone explain that to me?

I mean lets pretend for a moment that everything that Gore is saying is true and humans really are causing the problem. I don't own a chemical plant nor do I manufacture non-eco friendly products. So why am I made out to be a terrible person if I don't jump through all of the cute little eco-green hoops? I never asked for my fast food and beverages to be packaged in non-environmentally safe containers. Nobody seems to mind when a big mack truck shoots plumes of black smoke into the air but I get all kinds of thretening notices in the mail if I don't get my yearly emmissions inspection.

I get sick of hearing about what I shouldn't be buying even though large corporations are allowed to keep making the bad stuff.

Because you are indirectly part of the problem by consuming just about anything.

The only way you are NOT part of the problem is to live in the forest with no modern anything, basically.

[monty]

Good point.

[2Big4a3Series]

In light of everything said on here and in light of everything that I see about global warming in the media, I have to ask a question- Why is global warming MY problem? Can someone explain that to me?

I mean lets pretend for a moment that everything that Gore is saying is true and humans really are causing the problem. I don't own a chemical plant nor do I manufacture non-eco friendly products. So why am I made out to be a terrible person if I don't jump through all of the cute little eco-green hoops? I never asked for my fast food and beverages to be packaged in non-environmentally safe containers. Nobody seems to mind when a big mack truck shoots plumes of black smoke into the air but I get all kinds of thretening notices in the mail if I don't get my yearly emmissions inspection.

I get sick of hearing about what I shouldn't be buying even though large corporations are allowed to keep making the bad stuff.

[e30addict007]

Al Gore is a Homo, I roll with no cats and a absurd oil leak.