American Exceptionalism

[rwh11385]

I start a thread about how I think this country is great, despite it's flaws, and then people can't wait to shit on it. I guess it really exemplifies the sorry state of the situation.

Or underlines much of the world's annoyance with the American self-image

[rwh11385]

Bobby I'm not saying it's perfect. Everyone assumes that I'm on some perfectionist bandwagon and that's the last thing I'm saying.

Why is it not OK to be proud of being an American, regardless of flaws?

It is OK. It's not okay to say we're the best and there's nothing else out there that were are missing out on because we have the assumption we're the best and that's it. Culture keeps changing, and not for the better. Technology is, but we're losing humanity quickly for the interests of profits and "well-being". Some nations may be moving slower to "catch up" but really are rooted in other things that seem undervalued here. The American machine may be efficient, in the aims of its intent but not in life.

I don't know if it's just houston or what - but people are wasteful, inconsiderate, gluttonous, and litter a lot - all the while posessing an overwhelming sense of self satisfaction.

HEY. Someone record this, I agree with Patrick.

The US would get a lot further if we were not so damned arrogant and expecting other nations to be like us in order to be successful. They may have their own definition and be happy, very happy, with it: Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Canada...

[apexede30]

Everyone thought they won world war 2. Russians, brits, the freakin italians after they switched sides per se, even the ethiopians. Other than that, good post, agreed, and what not.

[uofom3]

Ted, have you been to Denmark? Germany? UK? France? Holland? I need to get my ass to Copenhagen badly. Denmark is the happiest place on earth, not Disney World.

It's great to do well and be fairly rewarded. It's great to have freedom, but what do we choose to do with it?

There's positive and negative things about other countries, and I guess I feel a lot of people always think that America is the best way and only way, and that makes their opinion matter much less than someone open to understanding other people's perspectives to further the discussion and have a more complete argument. Works much better than simply bickering back and forth as "Nuh Huh" "Yah Huh".

Read these book and then see how at least you make your statements.
http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Enligh.../dp/1859840736
$5 shipped for a novel about finding the perfect world

Bobby I'm not saying it's perfect. Everyone assumes that I'm on some perfectionist bandwagon and that's the last thing I'm saying.

Why is it not OK to be proud of being an American, regardless of flaws?

[uofom3]

uofm3

Your assumption that I cannot comment on the US's status because I don't live in the US is pretty lame. I have lived in more countries around the world that you will ever. I lived in Africa, France and Canada. I visited most European, Asian and Pacific countries and travelled across the US, coast to coast on bikes and cars, perhaps more times than many members here. I have lived different environments and seen different ways to govern a country. So, yes, I can comment on the US based on my experiences.

"The better we do, the better you do. You tapped into the US market because you know it's got more people who are financially secure and willing to spend money on goods such as BBK's. You also would benefit directly from tax cuts, economic stimulous packages, etc."

Are you serious when you write stuff like that?

50% of my market is the US. 50% is the rest of the world. My business supplies US customers, and buys from US sources. My business beneficiates US businesses too. I have no idea where you got that because I do business with American customers, I should shut the fuck up on the US government or the US lifestyle. I'll say up front what I think of good or bad US policies. What do you make of the first amendment? Please don't patronize me and tell me otherwise.

You can say whatever you like, Lee.

Think about what you just said. Half of your business is from 1 COUNTRY and then THE REST OF THE WORLD. I never said that you don't benefit US business, did I? But it is pretty undeniable about the fact that you benefit hugely from the success of America (50% of your gross, apparently).

I start a thread about how I think this country is great, despite it's flaws, and then people can't wait to shit on it. I guess it really exemplifies the sorry state of the situation.

[rwh11385]

Ted, have you been to Denmark? Germany? UK? France? Holland? I need to get my ass to Copenhagen badly. Denmark is the happiest place on earth, not Disney World.

It's great to do well and be fairly rewarded. It's great to have freedom, but what do we choose to do with it?

There's positive and negative things about other countries, and I guess I feel a lot of people always think that America is the best way and only way, and that makes their opinion matter much less than someone open to understanding other people's perspectives to further the discussion and have a more complete argument. Works much better than simply bickering back and forth as "Nuh Huh" "Yah Huh".

Read these book and then see how at least you make your statements.
http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Enligh.../dp/1859840736
$5 shipped for a novel about finding the perfect world

Ultimately you could look up facts and figures about the US and other nations all you want, but sometimes in life quantifying things does not get the real picture. It would be rather scary if numbers could sum up a person's life, their experiences, their attitudes, their friends, their love, their culture. It is also scary if someone thinks that this is possible and attempts to calculate the best with numbers. I feel a lot of people miss the point, and there is a lot not being brought in that exist elsewhere and we take for granted because that is not on a balance sheet.

[nando]

anyways, go live in another country, be poor, be rich, live other lifestyles/cultures then pass judgement.

i've got a muffler to pull. cya
Julien

I don't really live there, but I spend enough time in canada (well 3 days a week) to know where I want to live - and it's the USA.

Europe isn't the best either - unless you like high unemployment and taxes. it's nice to visit though. ;)

[TDE30]

Nort Caalina, proud to call it home.

[uofom3]

oh whatever, you've got upper-middle-class-my-dad-worked-his-ass-off-to-get-us-here-why-can't-other-people

written all over you.. people hate, us white people, because we have ruled for the past 1000 years and have made some good, some bad and some terrible moves.

anyways, go live in another country, be poor, be rich, live other lifestyles/cultures then pass judgement.

i've got a muffler to pull. cya
Julien

I'm not going to argue with you, Julien, this thread is not about the personal financial situation of UofOm3 and his family. You've obviously got a beef with me because I, and my family, work hard. That's fine.

If you say "ruled for the last 1000 years" or whatever.. that's a whole different discussion. And if you really think white people have "ruled" or whatever, fine. I don't really see it that way but OK. If that were the case of being in a "ruling" position, wouldn't you expect there to be some bad decisions along the way? If someone is 50 years old, they have made some good, bad, marginal and indifferent decisions in their lifetime.

Don't pin the problems on someone because they are white. It's OK to assume that every white person has it easy and are some racist hick jackass who clings to their religion and their guns - but it's not OK to see a guy on a plane wearing a turban and feel uneasy. I don't look at people as colors, I judge them by the content of their character - as I think most people here do. American society would improve drastically if that's how people thought and tried to get over the racial divide. I'm doing what I can to change it, but unfortunately I just see a lot of people perpetuating problems.

[Massive Lee]

uofm3

Your assumption that I cannot comment on the US's status because I don't live in the US is pretty lame. I have lived in more countries around the world that you will ever. I lived in Africa, France and Canada. I visited most European, Asian and Pacific countries and travelled across the US, coast to coast on bikes and cars, perhaps more times than many members here. I have lived different environments and seen different ways to govern a country. So, yes, I can comment on the US based on my experiences.

"The better we do, the better you do. You tapped into the US market because you know it's got more people who are financially secure and willing to spend money on goods such as BBK's. You also would benefit directly from tax cuts, economic stimulous packages, etc."

Are you serious when you write stuff like that?

50% of my market is the US. 50% is the rest of the world. My business supplies US customers, and buys from US sources. My business beneficiates US businesses too. I have no idea where you got that because I do business with American customers, I should shut the fuck up on the US government or the US lifestyle. I'll say up front what I think of good or bad US policies. What do you make of the first amendment? Please don't patronize me and tell me otherwise.

[Julien]

What am I supposed to do, turn down college scholarships, well paying jobs, and not work as hard? Julien, you have no idea who you are talking to, what my circumstances are, or the path I or my family have travelled to get where I am today. Frankly, it's none of your business. You keep drinking the haterade, and I'll keep working on my m3.

It has nothing to do with being white, you want rich/educated/hyper successful people - go talk to Asian-Americans. They aren't "white", but yet they do very very well.

Why is everyone racist against white people?

oh whatever, you've got upper-middle-class-my-dad-worked-his-ass-off-to-get-us-here-why-can't-other-people

written all over you.. people hate, us white people, because we have ruled for the past 1000 years and have made some good, some bad and some terrible moves.

anyways, go live in another country, be poor, be rich, live other lifestyles/cultures then pass judgement.

i've got a muffler to pull. cya
Julien

[uofom3]

looks like you are
rich
white

*kisses*
Julien

What am I supposed to do, turn down college scholarships, well paying jobs, and not work as hard? Julien, you have no idea who you are talking to, what my circumstances are, or the path I or my family have travelled to get where I am today. Frankly, it's none of your business. You keep drinking the haterade, and I'll keep working on my m3.

It has nothing to do with being white, you want rich/educated/hyper successful people - go talk to Asian-Americans. They aren't "white", but yet they do very very well.

Why is everyone racist against white people?

[Julien]

Socialized healthcar, government jobs, etc. It's the absolute last thing I'd want.

looks like you are
rich
white

*kisses*
Julien

[uofom3]

I wonder what you make of, say, Italy, France, UK, Belgium, Danemark, Netherlands etc.

Socialized healthcar, government jobs, etc. It's the absolute last thing I'd want.

Your comments about the white man seem to be racist and stereotypical which shows some ignorance on the matter. It also seems self-loathing, being as how as far as I can remember you're a white guy (though not an American white man, which apparently makes it different).

Finally, you do business in the US. You benefit directly from the success of the American populous/economy as, last I checked, big brake kits were not a necessity for the American consumer (well, some of us may argue that they are :)). It's a luxury good unless you own a money making race team. The better we do, the better you do. You tapped into the US market because you know it's got more people who are financially secure and willing to spend money on goods such as BBK's. You also would benefit directly from tax cuts, economic stimulous packages, etc.

[uofom3]

"The most free society"?

I wonder what you make of, say, Italy, France, UK, Belgium, Danemark, Netherlands etc. I understand your point of asking not to continuously hit on America, but your own comments on America being the best country in the world, obviously begs for nothing less than perfection. Which it is not necessarely what it is. Better be a rich white man in good health, than a sick and poor black/hispanic woman. Nobody would claim that the US is a fascist state, but it is not heaven either. There are problems, as with any other country.

Yes, Bush is a total idiot. Not for being himself (totally uneducated, selfish, single-visionned little brat), but for representing some politicians and industrialists who think that the US is the spear of "freedom and democracy" and therefore owns the world for the sole purpose of making money.

Lee, seriously. You present your arguments in an educated manner, but you shouldn't even be posting in this thread. You're Canadian. You probably think you're country is the "best" or better than the US or else you wouldn't live there. I'm not putting words in your mouth, but you must feel that way to be saying what you say. Most of what you say is borderline socialist from my perspective, which is fine, but part of me doesn't understand how you can post that way and be a business owner at the same time (and not just a business owner, but someone who proactively trying to GROW their business in the USA).

The US doesn't own the world, it just protects the majority of the first world countries in the event of armed conflict.

You'd be singing a different tune if Canada had some bad shit go down, and we helped you out. And we would, because that's what we do (refer back to just about every country impacted by WWII). We are sending aid to Darfur, we went into Somalia, etc.