Undergrad Debt, how much did you incur?

[Pinepig]

edit: Pinepig, I feel your pain. I got through my commercial rating on my own, and its painful.

Small price to pay to be able to fly every day.

[Jonathan Chan]

Yep, Computer Science. EE = Electrical Engineering.

Last I heard, there have been less and less CS graduates. I'll go read statistics now, though.

Not necessarily less CS graduates, but less with real talent and insight into the field of study. I forget where I read it, either BusinessWeek or WSJ said companies have a hard time finding qualified CS grads for the positions they have available, combined with demand for high pay (a relic of the dot com boom) it's much harder for companies to find candidates they can afford and are willing to pay for.

That said, a few of my CS classmates that graduated from USC (in CS) this past May are making mid-60's.

CS = Computer Science?

I wish the best to you, but that seems like a field deep with grad's as of late. I wish I had the database/HTML experience to go with my Tech Writing. I wouldn't have a problem finding a $85-100k a year job.

You're still not going to find that $85k - 100k job right out of school though, or are you talking about after a few years of experience? DBA jobs are really popular now with all the social-networking sites popping up.

This is an interesting read:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_15/b4079059579345.htm

[Jonathan Chan]

Another interesting article:

For Class of '08,
A Scramble for Jobs
By ANJALI ATHAVALEY
April 8, 2008; Page D1
As the credit crunch roils financial markets and the U.S. economy sputters, new college graduates are plunging into the rockiest job market in recent years.

The bleaker picture is in stark contrast with last year, when colleges and employers reported robust hiring, and students in finance, accounting and other hot fields were choosing among numerous offers. Now, companies that just a few months ago were planning substantial increases in entry-level hiring have scaled back their plans as economic conditions have worsened. In turbulent areas such as financial services, some firms are slashing the number of fresh graduates they intend to employ, and students are curtailing expectations of finding their ideal position.

HELP FINDING THE RIGHT JOB


Finding a job is hard; finding the perfect job is even harder. If you're a new or recent grad, these worksheets, provided by Stanford University's Career Development Center, can help identify the type of job and workplace that suit your personality.
There's no final grade, but the answers will help grads craft thought-out responses to questions they may encounter in the interview process. (.pdf)
Skills worksheet: What do you like best? To organize? Strategize? Prioritize?1
Values worksheet: What motivates you? Maybe it's making an impact; a sense of adventure; working on a team to solve problems.2
Work-environment worksheet: Do you work best in a group or individually? Are you suited for an office setting or prefer working in the field?3
Ken Goldstein, a labor economist at the Conference Board, a New York business research group, says the shift in mood is going to be particularly difficult for seniors who haven't already secured a job, "especially those graduates with C or B-minus averages." In the current climate, employers "tell folks, 'Don't call us, we'll call you,'" Mr. Goldstein says. "That sort of has been the modus operandi when the economy gets this slow."

The latest unemployment figures reinforce the gloom. The jobless rate rose to 5.1% in March, the highest since September 2005, the Labor Department reported Friday.

To cope with the gloomier outlook, some graduating seniors are opting for jobs they think are less likely to be affected by tumult in the financial sector. James Auger, a 22-year-old human communications sciences major at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., had hoped to start a career in banking, but he recently accepted a job at Health Care Futures LP, a consulting firm in Itasca, Ill. Part of the reason, he says, was "because they weren't really attached to the market as much as the banks were."

There are some bright spots for the Class of 2008. Government hiring remains robust. In fields such as health care and technology, some businesses are hoping to sign on more newly minted grads than last year, while companies in other fields say they're keeping their hiring goals steady. Meanwhile, some seniors headed for careers in finance, consulting and other hard-hit sectors locked in offers from employers last fall, when the outlook for the U.S. economy was less gloomy.


Sarah Quarterman, global head of campus recruiting at Merrill Lynch & Co., says that despite the downturn in finance, banks are unlikely to cut back on hiring to the extent they did in 2000. "Everyone learned the lesson that it wasn't the smart thing to do because students that get hired from campus are a pipeline for the organization," she says. "What a lot of firms experienced in 2005 and 2006 was a shortage of talent at the VP level," typically five or six years out of school.

Still, the overall mood in the job market has taken a dramatic downturn from just a few months ago. According to a survey conducted last fall by the National Association of Colleges and Employers, a Bethlehem, Pa., nonprofit, large employers initially expected to boost hiring of new graduates 16%, on average, this year from last year's levels. After redoing the survey in February, NACE found employers planned a more modest 8% increase overall. Within financial services, hiring is now anticipated to fall 7.5% this year, as investment banks announce sweeping cutbacks.

Even offers made last fall aren't set in stone. At Bear Stearns Cos., whose planned acquisition by J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. is expected to result in thousands of layoffs, half of the 100 or so job offers to graduating seniors are being rescinded, mainly in areas where the two firms overlap, according to a person familiar with the matter. J.P. Morgan says all its offers to graduating seniors remain valid.

Among other financial-services firms, Citigroup Inc. says that its hiring of undergraduate students is down 10% this year. Merrill Lynch's number of college hires is flat this year after increasing last year. Deloitte LLP says it is employing 6,000 college juniors and seniors this year for full-time or intern positions -- the same level as last year. In previous years, the accounting firm has seen increases of about 10%. "It may not be as dramatic of a growth as the year prior," says Diane Borhani, head of U.S. campus recruiting at Deloitte. "We are going to be a little smart."

College seniors are feeling the pressure to secure a job earlier in the year. Trudy Steinfeld, executive director at the Wasserman Center for Career Development at New York University, says that 45% of the senior class has full-time job offers so far, up from 40% this time last year. She attributes the increase to students accepting the first job they are offered. "The talk on campus is that if you have an offer, this isn't the year to go shopping," she says.

Scott Bell, who plans to graduate this year from New York University with a degree in East Asian studies, was looking for a job in financial services or consulting. The 21-year-old was unable to land interviews with major investment banks, despite a strong grade-point average and an internship in the Tokyo office of global management consultancy Bain & Co.

Mr. Bell received an offer for a consulting job in Deloitte's New York office in November. Rather than wait for more offers, Mr. Bell accepted. "In this economic situation, everyone was a little worried," he says. "It would be better for me to take what I had."

Companies in sectors that saw robust increases in recent years say their hiring is flat this year. International Business Machines Corp. says it hired 5,000 people in the U.S. last year, 36% of whom were recent university graduates -- the same as in 2006. This year, "given the broader economy in the U.S., we don't see huge growth," says Vera Chota, manager of university recruiting for IBM.

Certain skills still are in strong demand, says Ms. Chota, adding that the company can't find enough qualified graduates with degrees in computer science and those who have knowledge of both business and IT. "In the U.S., unfortunately, there are not enough great computer-science graduates," Ms. Chota says.

On college campuses, career-services directors say job offers have continued to flow in from employers in health care, information technology, and the nonprofit and government sectors. Demand for skilled workers in industries like computer science is boosting the average starting salary 4% this year from last, according to a NACE survey.

A breakdown by industry shows that starting salaries for accounting and finance grads rose by a mere 1.9%, while business-administration and management graduates saw increases of less than 1%. The average offer for computer-science majors, on the other hand, rose 7.9%. Engineering graduates saw an average increase of 5.7%.

The job outlook for new graduates can vary from college to college, depending on a school's location and its rankings in certain industries.

The University of Texas at Austin undergraduate school of business, where approximately 70% of college seniors find jobs within the state, 75% of seniors have received job offers so far, on par with last year. With oil prices hovering near historic highs, the university is seeing strong demand from energy companies in Texas, who typically hire undergraduate business students for positions in marketing, supply-chain management or corporate finance, says Velma Arney, director of undergraduate career services at UT's McCombs School of Business.

College juniors, meanwhile, are anticipating tough times ahead. "It's probably going to be a lot more difficult" for next year's graduating seniors, says Karim Hemani, 21, a business honors student majoring in finance at the University of Texas at Austin.

Mr. Hemani, a junior, says that when he tried to find an internship in investment banking for the coming summer earlier this year, recruiters warned him that the labor market would be tighter for his class. He eventually landed an internship at Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. LLC, an energy investment firm in Houston. Among college juniors, "the sentiment is a lot more negative right now," he says.

Write to Anjali Athavaley at anjali.athavaley@wsj.com4

[TwoJ's]

Yup just like when I was an MET major and they told us, $60k a year starting, no problem.

Don't bash my dreams. I should be finished with my BS in MET a year from now, and I am hoping to make at least $60k/year. A good friend of mine just graduated and he had a job offer before he graduated for $58k with very good benefits. And that is over here on the east side of the mountains where cost of living is minuscule compared to the West side around the Puget Sound where I want to live.

From what I hear about the people that graduate from here, I shouldn't have a problem with that.

But back on topic. I am lucky enough not to be in any debt at the moment (aside from my mortgage). But I am really, really looking forward to having a better paying job so the $1600/month isn't such a fucking stretch.

[kylebes1]

Well, I don't feel too bad at this point. Just need to manage my spending better. I always have more than enough money left over, I just use it for stupid shit like MT2 steering wheels and odometer gears :(

[Borat]

curious, whats the standard cost of uni for an undergrad in the states?

me and most of my mates rack up around $12K a year for course costs and living expenses, and most are at uni for 3 to 4 years. Obviously less if parents contribute and most do to some degree or other.

[z31maniac]

You're still not going to find that $85k - 100k job right out of school though, or are you talking about after a few years of experience? DBA jobs are really popular now with all the social-networking sites popping up.

Yes you are right, I'm still talking about with a few years of real job experience.

I'm also considering going back to school to get my Master's in Technical Communication, but don't know if it will be worth the extra debt incurred.

[z31maniac]

Don't bash my dreams. I should be finished with my BS in MET a year from now, and I am hoping to make at least $60k/year. A good friend of mine just graduated and he had a job offer before he graduated for $58k with very good benefits. And that is over here on the east side of the mountains where cost of living is minuscule compared to the West side around the Puget Sound where I want to live.

That's awesome I hope you land it, but to put it in a bit of perspective, I was told that number 8 years ago when I was a freshman and you are in an area of the country that still costs more to live in.

[Turf1600]

I've got about a year and a half left and I'm at a whopping $0. My work pays $5k a semester. My wife is in nursing school and she has ~2k in debt from her first semester in college. What sucks is when she's an RN with a bachelors she will see a miniscule pay increase from where she is now.

[Jonathan Chan]

Yes you are right, I'm still talking about with a few years of real job experience.

I'm also considering going back to school to get my Master's in Technical Communication, but don't know if it will be worth the extra debt incurred.

I think a masters will open a lot of doors for anyone that already possess an undergrad education and work experience.

It's "too" easy to get an undergrad education these days, if you want to make that money, I think you gotta put the time in to get a masters.

The current place that I'll be starting work with next week contributes 70% to a masters and the other 30% upon completion. FTW!

[kylebes1]

That sounds about right. My rent contract at school is $7000 for one year, about $3000 times two semesters and another $1000 for Summer. That is $14000 just for tuition and rent. Not to mention food and gas, because I still work.

I just borrowed another $6000.00 to get me through two more semesters. If I do not have a 3.75 by the end of that I cannot accomplish any of my goals anyway.

I should have taken it seriously in the beginning.

curious, whats the standard cost of uni for an undergrad in the states?

me and most of my mates rack up around $12K a year for course costs and living expenses, and most are at uni for 3 to 4 years. Obviously less if parents contribute and most do to some degree or other.

[155///MPH]

None - till I got married.....

[nando]

I have about $7k - not too bad. lazily paid off, it should be gone in 4 years. I worked through school though, had full tuition paid for a couple times, and I took care of my uncle's house for a couple years (no rent), so school debt wasn't a big issue.

[TwoJ's]

I think a masters will open a lot of doors for anyone that already possess an undergrad education and work experience.

It's "too" easy to get an undergrad education these days, if you want to make that money, I think you gotta put the time in to get a masters.

The current place that I'll be starting work with next week contributes 70% to a masters and the other 30% upon completion. FTW!

That's true, I do think a standard BS degree is really not all that hard to get. That is very cool your employer will pay for your further schooling. I'm hoping to work for Boeing when I graduate from here, and they also pay for 100% of any further applicable education.

Then you can actually start making real money.

[adam12hicks]

College degrees don't get you high paying jobs (in most fields) - experience and willingness to bust your butt do. I know of a good number of people (myself possibly included) who quit college early to get into their respective field and after about 5-6 years were over the $130k mark with no school debt. Unfortunately I don't know too many colleges that teach you to be a good DBA (for example.) Logic, common sense and a drive to make yourself and your organization the best it can be is where the money is.

None of that applies to doctors, lawyers or financial planners :)