Biden just exposed Palin for what she is.

[Jesse30]

Funny, I go to an HBC, and things I hear make me laugh. I mean, it's reverse and rereverse racism. What shocked me was that last semester there were a lot more Obama shirts on campus, this semester leading up to elections, a lot of students are all of a sudden became republicans. Something I didn't expect at all. My friend, Will, said his family is thinking of disowning him if he doesn't vote black. I'm sure it a joke, but he's grandma wants to see a black president before she dies, and I would imagine that would be the case with many black families who have survivors from Civil Rights Movement era.

I don't think it's a problem thought, for every ignorant white voter, there will be an ignorant black voter. I'm just not sure what hispanics and asians will do.

dude im sorry, but thats really annoying when people call it reverse racism. if you hate another race, its racism end of story.


Carry on.

[blunttech]

Call me naive, but what exactly are the consequences?

Seriously I don't really know. If we don't pass the bail out and we leave the market to shoulder the mess they created, how does that effect me personally?

As far as I can see this is a Wall Street and Big Bank problem. That doesn't effect me as far as I can see. Its not going to cause my grocery store to stop have groceries, its not going to stop the gas station from having gas, its not going to stop me from buying E30 parts for customer cars. So what the fuck I ask you is the bailout going to accomplish?

Have you seen the latest tax breaks they have thrown into the bailout deal to 'sweeten' it up? Go do some research on it.



Post one single link to a current political thread on E30Tech Right Now!
Thats right bitch because their isn't one. STFU. Thats what we come here for.



That was like 40 fucking years ago you dolt. And he was a officer, and he was known as 'song bird' McCain because of all the information he would give up in exchange for comforts for him and his comrades.

You cannot compare someones health today to what it was when they where in their strongest prime 40 years ago.

I havent been on the board much lately as i was gone but i seem to recall you whining like a little bitch and taking your toys and leaving. was that shortlived and why are you back?

[kronus]

peerless - when banks collapse, credit will cease to exist for at least a short time.

Many businesses operate on loans that they expect to pay off eventually. Consider that a grocery store has at least 5 different companies behind it that supply services to it, like transportation, delivery, maintenance, etc. At least one of those five is likely to be somehow screwed over by bank collapse.

Sure, if one link of the chain collapses, you can go to a company that hasn't collapsed yet. However, the load on that company will increase because the need for its services will increase greatly, and it will eventually go under for the same reason the first one did. Without credit, the chain is brittle, and your grocery store will indeed stop selling groceries.

[kronus]

dude im sorry, but thats really annoying when people call it reverse racism. if you hate another race, its racism end of story.


Carry on.

Can you explain to me what you think reverse racism is? I think you might be missing the point.

[nando]

Call me naive, but what exactly are the consequences?

Seriously I don't really know. If we don't pass the bail out and we leave the market to shoulder the mess they created, how does that effect me personally?

As far as I can see this is a Wall Street and Big Bank problem. That doesn't effect me as far as I can see. Its not going to cause my grocery store to stop have groceries, its not going to stop the gas station from having gas, its not going to stop me from buying E30 parts for customer cars. So what the fuck I ask you is the bailout going to accomplish?

Have you seen the latest tax breaks they have thrown into the bailout deal to 'sweeten' it up? Go do some research on it.

Maybe you don't understand how important the financial system is to our economy. Compared to how much money circulates, there is actually very little printed cash in the system. The rest comes from the financial industry - the multiplier (velocity in MV = PQ, quantity of money theory) is usually around 9-10x.

If the financial industry collapses - and it's entirely possible given how large and far reaching the issue is - that would mean 90% of the economy would dissappear overnight. And this is a worldwide problem, since almost every bank in the developed world bought into the mortgage backed securities that are at the heart of the issue.

It affects you because the company you are employed by (or the employers of people who come to you for a service) won't have a source for financing to keep their business running, or at least they will have to seriously cut back their operations. It will affect every business that uses the financial system to invest and borrow - which is 99% of all business.

And yes, it could mean that the grocery store no longer has groceries, because they buy them on credit and pay for them later (usually after 30-60-90 days). If there is nobody to finance it, they have to pay cash and that may not be possible unless they have large reserves.

I don't know if a government bailout will do anything to fix the problem. It may not be even close to enough - $700b sounds like a lot but it's a drop in the bucket compared to how big the problem could be. We could throw that money at the problem and end up just flushing it down the toilet. But it's clear to me that simply standing by and letting the financial system crumble is not a good idea when our economy is very dependent on it - in fact, historically it's been our excellent financial system that has kept our economy so competitive.

[Unearth078]

Peerless, if no one can get loans from banks, no one can spend money = dead stop on out economy which = crash. not just the consumer is effected. grocery stores who dont have cash to buy more product for there stores can be effected. and about gas, same deal. oh and the reason why gas is high in price is due to supply remining the same and demand going up in other countrys. example one being china. we give them large amounts of money to produce goods. now they want cars be need gas to fuel them blah blah blah <3 economics also when people say this is the largest market drop in history its not as huge as a deal cause our market is the largest its ever been

[Unearth078]

technically

I don't know if a government bailout will do anything to fix the problem. It may not be even close to enough - $700b sounds like a lot but it's a drop in the bucket compared to how big the problem could be. We could throw that money at the problem and end up just flushing it down the toilet. But it's clear to me that simply standing by and letting the financial system crumble is not a good idea when our economy is very dependent on it - in fact, historically it's been our excellent financial system that has kept our economy so competitive.

Nando technically if our market continues at this rate 700 billion would last us tops 2 years... realistically 1
but if we do end up making money then we shouldnt have a problem.

think of the goverment buying lots of stocks with our taxes and when those stocks goes up, distributing the earnings well among us but who knows how that will play out.

[nando]

also, this could have direct consequences for the whole "climate change" debate (whether it's real or not). I just got this from Citibank:

We’re on a global mission. Citi is committed to directing $50 billion over the next 10 years to address global climate change through investments, financings and related activities to support the commercialization and growth of alternative energy and clean technology among the clients and markets it serves, as well as within its own businesses and operations.

I would imagine a good chunk of that is going towards alternative energy development, and even if climate change is a farce we still need alternatives to oil and coal. Now imagine that tomorrow Citibank no longer exists - that's $50 billion sucked out of the economy overnight, and a good deal less investment into alternative energy. Yes, Citi is just one company - but because basically every financial institute bought into mortgage backed securities, it's unlikely that a collapse in the market would only affect one or two large institutions.

[z31maniac]

peerless, I found this especially fitting.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/03/news/economy/california_crisis/index.htm?postversion=2008100310

Tell me again how this doesn't affect everyone, including you?

[nando]

Nando technically if our market continues at this rate 700 billion would last us tops 2 years... realistically 1
but if we do end up making money then we shouldnt have a problem.

think of the goverment buying lots of stocks with our taxes and when those stocks goes up, distributing the earnings well among us but who knows how that will play out.

that's what the clueless don't understand - the goverment is effectively buying a stake in these companies, not neccesarily just giving them a handout. I think the interest rate is something like 10% - that's like 4x better than the "return" you get from social (in)security. But a high interest rate usually means more risk, so I can understand why people don't want the goverment involved.

[Unearth078]

shsgh

Yes, Citi is just one company - but because basically every financial institute bought into mortgage backed securities, it's unlikely that a collapse in the market would only affect one or two large institutions.

i missed the whole climate issue. wow how topics move in these forums. anyway, our market effects everyone. Europe, china, japan. just goes to show the consequences of loosing the ability to be independent. but as long as the "bailout" aka kick start is approved it shouldn't be an issue. Check out wachovias stocks btw, kind of a good sign. but anyway what im irritated about is the whole wait were experiencing while senators slip in dumb things like and oregon senator slipping in a bill to produce arrows more cheaply since and arrow firm is in oregon. boy he'll look good come relection....

[Unearth078]

Yes finally someone

that's what the clueless don't understand - the goverment is effectively buying a stake in these companies, not neccesarily just giving them a handout. I think the interest rate is something like 10% - that's like 4x better than the "return" you get from social (in)security. But a high interest rate usually means more risk, so I can understand why people don't want the goverment involved.

yeap thats why alot voted it down initially.... that and the democrats earmarked the shit outta it but regardless. they will look good disapproving a 'handout'

are we the only ones left? lol

[Vedubin01]

that's what the clueless don't understand - the goverment is effectively buying a stake in these companies, not neccesarily just giving them a handout. I think the interest rate is something like 10% - that's like 4x better than the "return" you get from social (in)security. But a high interest rate usually means more risk, so I can understand why people don't want the goverment involved.

My problem is... name one thing that the government does effectively? They are investing in problem companies that have a failed track record. What will get them to walk the strait and narrow and what consequences do they have if they fail again. Jail time and forfeit of assets for the company brass? What guarantee does the American people have that their money is being wisely invested?

[Unearth078]

interesting.

peerless, I found this especially fitting.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/03/news/economy/california_crisis/index.htm?postversion=2008100310

Tell me again how this doesn't affect everyone, including you?

i wonder what the legitimacy is of that, and also how bad the numbers are messed with. never heard anything about that.

[Vedubin01]

i wonder what the legitimacy is of that, and also how bad the numbers are messed with. never heard anything about that.

Its on about every font page news online today.....

What about GE turning to Buffet for $3bn in assistance? GE of all people turning to Buffet? HAHAHA