change.gov

[h0lmes]

I don't. I never claim to know as much about weed or failing at life as you do.

You sure know a lot about binge drinking and knocking up underage girls. Or are you just trying to be edgy?

[Money$hit]

Good for you. It doesn't mean that econ majors are some how authorities on every subject there is, which is what Heeter portrays himself as.

No, it helps you in politics in general. Once you start to learn about how the economy operates, you really get a handle what and how policies effect the macro environment.

[Ral]

Did you read much of it? Did you agree with anything it said? Oh, yea - it's the unibomber's manifesto.



Weird hun?

I didn't get very far into it. It had its points but for the most part it was pretty far in right field.

[speedhop]

Before I say anything, i haven't read this entire thread because it seems like a bunch of bickering.

Anyways, I praise Vedubin for posting items he feels need attention. Isn't that the point of free speech?

All of the left wing liberals on here seem to want to silence him for the ease of conversation in the "off topic" forum. Get over it. He posted something to raise awareness, you have no right to tell him to stop.

Obama has plans to turn America into something that America is not...raising awareness on a forum is simply a starting point. If you want to contribute to the thread, do so like an adult...that should go for everyone.

[Old'n'Slow]

I must have missed the part where Obama said he was going to BAN GUNS. Matter of fact, I don't believe he ever said it.

As for getting your panties in a wad about the proposed assault weapon ban, let me just put it in the terms of someone who been involved in home protection consultation alongside a former Ranger....

....if your home is attacked by people with assault weapons, and you do not have similarly equipped sentries at the ready in greater numbers since you will have likely been surprised and taken a few casualties, well.....the engagement will be noisy. And short. And you and yours likely dead.

So, possessing assault weapons "just in case" is dumb. Do you wear a helmet when you drive a car? You are far more likely to die there than at the wrong end of a gun.

Now.....handguns for home protection are similarly dumb. Wanna protect your home and kids from the most likely person coming into your home-a burglar or rapist? Pump action shotgun is where it's at. All you have to do is make that schlunck-chunck sound and the trespasser knows several things immediately. You are armed, alerted to their presence, and unlikely to miss. The idea is that you want them to leave. You want to avoid the confrontation. Firing a handgun accurately under duress is difficult, and the shotgun can be used as a weapon without even firing it, if necessary. Besides, a handgun is statistically more likely to be involved in the accidental shooting of a family member than to effectively repel an assailant. You go schlunk-chunck and you are more likely to hear "dad, it's me!", instead of your wife screaming because you successfully crept up on and engaged your son who was trying to sneak into or out of the house.

So, don't worry about gun control. Any gun that is likely to ever be truly useful to a citizen is unlikely to become illegal. You are contributing NRA members, yes?

And all you crybabies.....a little community service ain't gonna hurt you. Freedom ain't free. :p

[Old'n'Slow]

Obama has plans to turn America into something that America is not....

Are you trying to say that America is in terrible shape economically, its Armed Forces in disarray, its veterans treated poorly, its unemployment rising, its standard of living falling, etc, and that Obama wants America to not be these things?

I'll agree with that.

[Asbradley21]

Before I say anything, i haven't read this entire thread because it seems like a bunch of bickering.

Anyways, I praise Vedubin for posting items he feels need attention. Isn't that the point of free speech?

All of the left wing liberals on here seem to want to silence him for the ease of conversation in the "off topic" forum. Get over it. He posted something to raise awareness, you have no right to tell him to stop.

Obama has plans to turn America into something that America is not...raising awareness on a forum is simply a starting point. If you want to contribute to the thread, do so like an adult...that should go for everyone.

Actually, we do have the right to tell him to stop as this is not a street corner. First amendment free speech rights do not apply here. We have the right to tell him to shut up, and he has the right to ignore us. The admin team reserves the right to make him shut up, because this is their forum.

[RCWells]

Vdub can post all he wants, it IS his right and he IS allowed to do so.

The issue here is the RIGHT to keep and bear arms (and that right not being infringed upon that concerns me personally). I keep a handgun at bedside, and I DO train with it and under pressure hit quite accurately with it. Shotguns are much more appropriate for home defense for most who wish to defend themselves with a firearm, no argument there. But again, I don't want my 2nd Amendment rights infringed, repealed, modified, etc. to fit the twisted liberal views of what was possibly meant by the constructors of the constitution.

This thread was not a slam on Obama, so quit defending him if he's not planning to screw with the 2nd Amendment and it's intent. If he's NOT planning to implement more guns bans, then all of this is moot anyway. Right?

IF he IS in fact planning new/more gun bans, then fuck him and anyone else that would impose such bans on my RIGHT to keep and bear arms.

What is wrong with you people that think I should NOT own a gun?? What EXACTLY do you see is the problem with it? I truly do not understand it so one of you liberals that would like to see a ban imposed please clear it up for me.

[mrsleeve]

to all you leftist obama guys that say he dose not want to come after our firearms an try to circumvent the 2ed amendment with high taxes here you go

Obama voted to ban hundreds of rifles and shotguns commonly used for hunting and sport shooting Illinois Senate, SB 1195, 3/13/03

Obama endorsed a ban on all handguns Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, 9/9/96 Politico, 03/31/08.

Obama voted to allow the prosecution of people who use a firearm for self-defense in their homes Illinois Senate, S.B. 2165, vote 20, 3/25/04

Obama supported increasing taxes on firearms and ammunition by 500 percent Chicago Defender, 12/13/99

Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting United States Senate, S. 397, vote 217, 7/29/05

Obama opposes Right-to-Carry laws Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 4/2/08, Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04


this is not all of it there is much much more to the story than this.

even if you dont have a firearm but support the 2ed amendment please join the NRA its our best defense right now

[rwh11385]

There's a right to bear arms, but only the ones the government think are acceptable!!!

You have protection against unreasonable search and seizure... unless you look suspicious.

You have a right to your beliefs, unless your beliefs are not approved by the state.

Rights not in the constitution as being under control of the federal government shall be overseen by the states, unless Washington now deems it their business to deal with it...

[mrsleeve]

There's a right to bear arms, but only the ones the government think are acceptable!!!

You have protection against unreasonable search and seizure... unless you look suspicious.

You have a right to your beliefs, unless your beliefs are not approved by the state.

Rights not in the constitution as being under control of the federal government shall be overseen by the states, unless Washington now deems it their business to deal with it...

all sings that the federal Govt. has over grown its britches, an has gone beyond the scope of the original purpose of the federal govt.

[speedhop]

Are you trying to say that America is in terrible shape economically, its Armed Forces in disarray, its veterans treated poorly, its unemployment rising, its standard of living falling, etc, and that Obama wants America to not be these things?

I'll agree with that.

It's posts like this that do absolutely nothing. Am I supposed to come up with a rebuttal, negating everything you've said? Well, I'll give you a synopsis.

Obama's plans call for laziness on behalf of Americans...essentially sharing the wealth.

America is founded on the idea that hard work is rewarded, not redistributed while his plans reward those for being mediocre. In fact, if his marginal tax plan is carried out, we'll join the worlds highest tax bracket as well as highest unemployment. Obviously evening the playing field is a great idea. Capital gains...15% to Obama's plan, 28%. Historically with less tax on capital gains the market has done better creating more money flow and bringing more wealth to the government. But Obama wants to raise them just because it's "fair". I can keep going, but for brevity's sake I won't.

Not only that but the last time America has seen a democratic house, senate and president is Carter...that did a GREAT job.

So yeah, I'd venture to say Obama calls for things that are not American.

[DCColegrove]

Ahhh....

I'm not even going to get started on this...

suffice it to say, that the rules (constitution) went out the window some time ago.

[iamsam]

there, this thread is improving

(from the "off topic" bickering, anyway)

[iamsam]

I must have missed the part where Obama said he was going to BAN GUNS. Matter of fact, I don't believe he ever said it.

As for getting your panties in a wad about the proposed assault weapon ban, let me just put it in the terms of someone who been involved in home protection consultation alongside a former Ranger....

....if your home is attacked by people with assault weapons, and you do not have similarly equipped sentries at the ready in greater numbers since you will have likely been surprised and taken a few casualties, well.....the engagement will be noisy. And short. And you and yours likely dead.

So, possessing assault weapons "just in case" is dumb. Do you wear a helmet when you drive a car? You are far more likely to die there than at the wrong end of a gun.

Now.....handguns for home protection are similarly dumb. Wanna protect your home and kids from the most likely person coming into your home-a burglar or rapist? Pump action shotgun is where it's at. All you have to do is make that schlunck-chunck sound and the trespasser knows several things immediately. You are armed, alerted to their presence, and unlikely to miss. The idea is that you want them to leave. You want to avoid the confrontation. Firing a handgun accurately under duress is difficult, and the shotgun can be used as a weapon without even firing it, if necessary. Besides, a handgun is statistically more likely to be involved in the accidental shooting of a family member than to effectively repel an assailant. You go schlunk-chunck and you are more likely to hear "dad, it's me!", instead of your wife screaming because you successfully crept up on and engaged your son who was trying to sneak into or out of the house.

So, don't worry about gun control. Any gun that is likely to ever be truly useful to a citizen is unlikely to become illegal. You are contributing NRA members, yes?

And all you crybabies.....a little community service ain't gonna hurt you. Freedom ain't free. :p

Assault weapons are terrible home defense weapons. true.

But I happen to want an assault rifle for other reasons. I shoot targets as a hobby and i have a (sort of) assault rifle (Mini-14) to do so with. (along with other rifles of course)

To take away the right to own an assault rifle to me is just that: taking away a right. Regardless of how badly we "need" assault rifles, one of my rights just got (or will be) infringed upon.

That is the point.