Military

[LINUS]

1st 10 words pretty much set the tone, what more do you need me to say?

You're right - we don't agree.

[h0lmes]

yes, lets see holmes, communism is good
tell that to the 30,000,000 chinese killed by communists (yes, yhat number is correct)
the ignorance of youth

I have told you this before and I will say it again, your idea of communism is false. Communism is an egalitarian society. Your idea of communism is based on false, 50 year old, fear mongering, cold war propaganda. Try reading some Marx or Bakunin instead of O'Reilly and Hannity.

[gwb72tii]

I have told you this before and I will say it again, your idea of communism is false. Communism is an egalitarian society. Egalitarianism is good. Communism is good. Your idea of communism is based on false, 50 year old, fear mongering, cold war propaganda.

you so full of shit your eyes are brown
did you ever pay attention in school?
what a dumbass

false 50yr propaganda. how about 50yrs of history, or doesn't that count in your opinion

[h0lmes]

you so full of shit your eyes are brown
did you ever pay attention in school?
what a dumbass

false 50yr propaganda. how about 50yrs of history, or doesn't that count in your opinion

Funny because I have taken multiple university courses on socialism and have written many papers on various subjects within the realm of socialism. These include a Karl Marx biography, a paper focusing on Historical Materialism and a paper contrasting Libertarian Socialism with Authoritarian Socialism. What are your credentials?

[Hallen]

It is a fallacy to say that communism is bad unless you think that egalitarianism and freedom from authority are wrong. That is true communism. Considering most of America endorses these principles, you simply cannot argue that communism justified our entrance into Korea and Vietnam. It sure as hell threatened all the rich capitalists though and their so called way of life. But you don't belong to that group. You might know them as the ones who make all the "important" decisions but don't actually sacrifice anything themselves.

When I think of why we fought the Revolutionary War, the Civil War and World War II, the first thing that comes to mind is civil rights. Each of these wars was fought against an entity which was restricting the rights and freedoms of human beings and threatening their very way of life. That is what makes violent conflict justified. War is not justified however when it means making money, acquiring land or possessions, gaining power and influence. Every war since World War II and the majority of wars before then were fought for these selfish purposes.

Also, you can't make the argument that your friends died for people to weak to protect themselves. First, you're implying that anyone that isn't in the war is weak. Second, did you ever stop to think that some people never asked for protection? I never asked for protection from Saddam but I was fooled into thinking I needed it. If he came knockin at my door I would defend myself. You really shouldn't feel all high and mighty walking down the street telling yourself that all the "weak" people around you need you, because they sure as hell don't.

I really wish I could live in your world. Really. It sounds so nice and snugly...

First of all, communism is simply not economically viable. It never has been and never will be. Secondly, the communists of this world have done more to restrict human rights and to restrict "rights and freedoms of human beings" than just about anything else in the history of man.

Your assertion that Korea and Vietnam were misguided and solely aimed at protecting rich capitalists is really amazing. You can argue all day long about the politics involved and the benefits, but what you cannot deny is that the propagation of communism over the world was a real and present threat to the sovereignty of the US and other free countries. Communism is a blight. Not because it preaches the elevation of the workers or that we all share a common goal. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a blight because it is not economically viable and it insures the subjugation of the masses by just a few of the powerful elite. Exactly opposite of what it purports to do. (and far more devastating than the "elite" that you suggest that we have here)

Iraq and WMD was a side issue that got turned into THE issue. WMD's were in Iraq. We had dated or flawed intelligence that said they were still there. The media is what tied WMD's to validation for invading Sadam's regime. The people of Iraq had no rights and were horribly enslaved by a mad dictator. By your definitions of why we should go to war, Iraq sounds like a perfect candidate.

When you swallow the limp dick of the modern media and then spew out things like Iraq was unjustified and therefore those soldiers died for nothing, then you are doing the same thing as calling soldiers "baby killers". They have accomplished more than you can imagine by going to Iraq. In 30 years, if the Iraqis can manage to solidify their government, I think you will see that what our soldiers have done is a miracle for the majority of people in Iraq.

The point is, these soldiers stepped up to protect our Country, or way of life, our freedoms and our interests. These all go together. They did one hell of a good job of it too. You can talk all day about protecting yourself if Sadam comes knocking on your door but protecting your own sorry life is not the same as dedicating yourself to protecting ALL of the lives in the US. And if Sadam did come knocking, rest assured it would have been way, way too late for you to do a damn thing about it. You can't wait until the enemy has massed at your borders after taking over the rest of the world before you decide to do something about it. You have to act in the best interests of the Country well before that stage in this day and age. That is why WWII was as bad as it was. We waited way to long to get into it. War is way to fast moving and mobile today to wait until the threat actually starts scaring you in your bed at night. Our weapons today are way to lethal. If you can see the threat, you are already dead.

You can disagree that Iraq should have been a target in our war on Terrorism. But your logic leaves a lot of gaps. You cannot however argue that it wasn't justified. Sadam needed to be removed for our sakes and for the people's of Iraq sake. It is just too bad that it wasn't done much sooner than it was.

[LINUS]

egal·i·tar·i·an·ism
Pronunciation: \-ē-ə-ˌni-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1905
1 : a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic rights and privileges
2 : a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people

Sorry Holmes - I'm not buying that. If I do some really cool stuff, I want big $$$$.
If I do nothing, then I expect nothing.

Social pecking orders are what drive genetic survival - beautiful, genetically sound people find others like themselves attractive - and the opposite is true too. I think the same can be said for financial aspects too. Welfare mamas don't normally end up with the "Bill Gates" types, and that's pretty easy to 'do the math' on too.

Capitalism rocks, unless you are unmotivated. My opinion. The utopian idea that we are "all the same" just never works.

[gwb72tii]

Funny because I have taken multiple university courses on socialism and have written many papers on various subjects within the realm of socialism. These include a Karl Marx biography, a paper focusing on Historical Materialism and a paper contrasting Libertarian Socialism with Authoritarian Socialism. What are your credentials?

have you ever opened your eyes to the real world?

this is one of the problems with higher education imho. theory is one thing, reality often is quite another. there are no examles of communism doing anything other than benefit a few at the expense of many. in practice it is one of the most cruel forms of government ever

[BigWaveDave]

Funny because I have taken multiple university courses on socialism and have written many papers on various subjects within the realm of socialism. These include a Karl Marx biography, a paper focusing on Historical Materialism and a paper contrasting Libertarian Socialism with Authoritarian Socialism. What are your credentials?

Your credentials mean dick in the real world. So you took some classes. Listened to a couple of professors that probably dodged Vietnam or were to chicken shit. You have picked up their views and passed them off as your own. Your credentials are nothing. You can't form a single thought yourself. You have ZERO real world experience. All your knowledge is being passed off from someone else, who probably was not even there anyway.

[Hallen]

Funny because I have taken multiple university courses on socialism and have written many papers on various subjects within the realm of socialism. These include a Karl Marx biography, a paper focusing on Historical Materialism and a paper contrasting Libertarian Socialism with Authoritarian Socialism. What are your credentials?

Yeah, I like the part in Marx' biography where he works diligently 12 hours a day in the public library to craft his Utopian messages while his 8 (was it?) children and wife starved at home because he didn't have a job. Sounds like the kind of guy I want as my roll model.

Marx was a fool. He was a dreamer and I think he was slightly deranged. I mean, who lets his own kids starve like that? Anyway, my point in the long post above was that communism, even the pure form that Marx penned, is not economically viable. It can never work. Communism is just a political platform that can easily be used by the power mongers and unscrupulous people of the world to grab power.

If you are still in school, try to find a course on the Austrian theory of Economics. I bet you can't. It is well documented and researched over the years but it isn't taught. Hell, you can hardly find a class on Classicalist Economic theory in universities. Why? Because your instructors don't believe in these theories. They believe in Keynesian Economics which is just a short hop from Socialism. That is what they teach. So, you have the opportunity to expand your knowledge beyond what they teach by researching these on your own. Then you can start finally seeing the counter arguments that throw the wrench into the works of what is taught in universities.

[h0lmes]

Your credentials mean dick in the real world. So you took some classes. Listened to a couple of professors that probably dodged Vietnam or were to chicken shit. You have picked up their views and passed them off as your own. Your credentials are nothing. You can't form a single thought yourself. You have ZERO real world experience. All your knowledge is being passed off from someone else, who probably was not even there anyway.

Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy in this post? A soldier is telling me that I don't have my own opinions and that I can't form a single thought for myself?

I suppose they allow plenty of debate and discussion in the barracks don't they? I suppose your commanding officers asked what you thought when the order was given to invade Iraq? Did they put it up for vote?

No. From the day you enter boot camp you are taught to not question authority and take everything they say without question. There is no room for constructive debate and discussion in the military. You are a sheep.

[gwb72tii]

you're a fucking wet behind the ears ingrate you moron
bet you're a fairhaven type, eh? good ganja?

you want to be a real radical son, go back and ask your profs why the chinese communists exterminated 30,000,000 of their own people, or why cuba, that communist eden is still a 3rd world country run by the military where brutal physical oppression is still a normal way of life.

the dif between the military and you is light years, and you're too ignorant to see or appreciate it

[LINUS]

Holmes -

I think the message is that you are in college - it's a great place to "find yourself", or whatever, get some girls, score some weed, and see some bands -- but you ever notice where job applications ask for something like a Masters OR 2-3 years experience in a job?

It's just that you are learning how the world COULD work, not how it DOES work - in fact, you get a better grade for selling the most wildly imaginable idea if you can spin it right.

You are clearly smart, just drop the college doubletalk like you're writing an essay - nobody is biting.

[Money$hit]

H0mless turns tricks for doobies.

[atomic]

This is a good post. I am very liberal and have nothing bad to say about the military. I have even considered, and still consider joining.

Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy in this post? A soldier is telling me that I don't have my own opinions and that I can't form a single thought for myself?

I suppose they allow plenty of debate and discussion in the barracks don't they? I suppose your commanding officers asked what you thought when the order was given to invade Iraq? Did they put it up for vote?

No. From the day you enter boot camp you are taught to not question authority and take everything they say without question. There is no room for constructive debate and discussion in the military. You are a sheep.

Considering how out spoken you are with your views towards this you might want to reconsider wanting to join a branch of the military... :up:

You should also thank those who have/are serving as they have provided you with the very right to express your views on this subject. Since you have not done so as of yet in this thread and afterall, if it was not for the Military fighting for this country and your rights, that you might not even be able to spew what you are if this was a different country like in China or Cuba...

[h0lmes]

you're a fucking wet behind the ears ingrate you moron
bet you're a fairhaven type, eh? good ganja?

you want to be a real radical son, go back and ask your profs why the chinese communists exterminated 30,000,000 of their own people, or why cuba, that communist eden is still a 3rd world country run by the military where brutal physical oppression is still a normal way of life.

the dif between the military and you is light years, and you're too ignorant to see or appreciate it

Can you ever make a valid point about anything? All your posts ever consist of is name calling. Aren't you pushing 60? I would hope that by the time I am 60 I will have moved past arguing with and insulting 20 somethings on an internet forum.

BTW, I do not go to Fairhaven but Bellingham in general has excellent weed.