Isreal bomb Gaza, killing 195

[Massive Lee]

http://www.mideastweb.org/campdavid2.htm

Israel had a chance at peace if they would have gone back to the 1969 boarder, but they don't want peace.

Actually, a large part of Israelis are not Zionists and want peace. They are willing for a lot of concessions to end this 60 year old war. The problem is a handfull of Jewish zealots, mainly represented by Zionist settlers (who come from all the countries in the world, but Israel - France, Central Europe, Russia etc) and Christian Fundamentalists, who still dream of the return the Big Israel they read in "books". They even fight against Israeli police and army. This right wing is the dangerous one. And sadly, the government has no choice but to take their voting power in account.

One other element that should be taken in account is the support from the US to Israel. That support is based on two things. The all powerfull american Jewish lobby, and Christian Fundamentalists. Who do you guys think pay for all the Israeli weapons and ecnomics?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_isra.htm

[DCColegrove]

Christ on a Crutch...

If I had the money I'd charter a flight and send a few of you there for a while...

[E-Thirty]

Actually, a large part of Israelis are not Zionists and want peace. They are willing for a lot of concessions to end this 60 year old war. The problem is a handfull of Jewish zealots, mainly represented by Zionist settlers (who come from all the countries in the world, but Israel - France, Central Europe, Russia etc) and Christian Fundamentalists, who still dream of the return the Big Israel they read in "books". They even fight against Israeli police and army. This right wing is the dangerous one. And sadly, the government has no choice but to take their voting power in account.

One other element that should be taken in account is the support from the US to Israel. That support is based on two things. The all powerfull american Jewish lobby, and Christian Fundamentalists. Who do you guys think pay for all the Israeli weapons and ecnomics?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_isra.htm

Very good info.

[Vedubin01]

Christ on a Crutch...

If I had the money I'd charter a flight and send a few of you there for a while...

HAHAHA!


here ya go...... chew on this for a sec...

Hamas escalating this conflict, KNOWING your own population would be harmed, only to be able to play the role of victims again. What an evil bunch of people...

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,598521,00.html

Hamas's escalation strategy
by Pierre Heumann, Tel Aviv

Death and destruction reign in Gaza, but Hamas's calculations have come to fruition. The Islamists had provoked the Israeli government for weeks with attacks on civilian targets. Now they can play the role of the victim - and increase their standing in the Arab world.

Hamas must have known: Israel would not tolerate the continuous rocket attacks endlessly. Again and again militants fired on israeli towns in recent days. But the islamists considered the horrible pictures shown on TV which are shown across the world after Israel's attacks on Gaza in their calculations. They fully expected the suffering of innocents and the victims when they denied to extend the cease fire with Israel.



A perfidious strategy. The internationally isolated Hamas hopes - with the help of the current escalation of violence - to be taken as a serious negotiating party in the West. It is counting on the fact that the internation community will intervene and negotiate with Hamas.

On Friday, Hamas strategists still felt themselves safe, because Jerusalem was sending out calming signals. Israel mimed "business as usual". The government even allowed 80 trucks with relief supplies and medications to travel to Gaza. As if the operation "Poured Lead" wasn't planned, soldiers were allowed to take their planned vacation over the weekend. Hamas's leadership did not expect an attack before the weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday.

But it was already decided at this time in the israeli defense ministry: The provocation of the Islamists would not be tolerated any longer. The soothing signals on Friday were a ruse, as one knows since Saturday. The concentrated attacks of the israeli air force were supposed to catch the Hamas leadership unprepared. That was successful.
The escalation was forseeable since the 19th of December. On this day, Hamas and a dozen other Palestinian groups allowed the six month old cease fire with Israel to expire - even though the cease fire was tenuous already. Almost 200 rockets and several mortars impacted on Israel since then. Civilians, not military installations were the targets of Hamas. The rockets only missed their intended targets only due to their lack of precision. But the continuous fear of the Kassam rockets made life in the south of Israel a pain. Many inhabitants fled to the North.



Hamas could have weighed the consequences of their attacks. The egyptian government, which attempted to negotitate betweem Gaza and Jerusalem, expressly warned them.

Even the threats from Israel over the past few weeknd were clear and not in need of interpretation. Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, in an interview with an arabic television station, demanded that the Palestinians cease the aggression against Israel. "Stop it" - otherwise, Israel would use force against the rocket launchers and their leaders.

But that's exactly what Hamas was counting on. Otherwise, it would not have provoked Israel, which possesses and army of Nato strength. It had known that hailing down rockets on Israel would eventually lead to retaliation.

That did not keep its leadership from ordering and supporting the rocket attacks. It was ready to accept that an israeli counterattack would cause casualties among the palestinian civilians, since Hamas compounds are purposefully sited in city parts where civilians live.

The welfare of the palestinian population is not the primary goal of Hamas. It has the governmental responsibility for the 1.5 Million inhabitants of the Gaza strip. But the statesmanlike duty that is tied to this resposibility has not been exhibited by the islamists. They remain dedicated to their ideology of resistance. That is why they are considered terrorists not only in Israel, but also in Europe and the USA.

Hamas, it appears, had only one goal with their provocation, which couldn't be any more cynical: They recommend themselves as a partner for dialog. Without their assent, there will be no peace is their malicious message. More then that: The massive military blow against Hamas, whose end is not yet in sight, improves the standing of Gaza's islamists in the entire arab world.

Even Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas - certainly no friend of Hamas - expressed solidarity with Gaza and its government. In Jordan, Palestinians demanded that their government nullify their peace accord with Israel. The west bank is expecting violence. That would allow Hamas's claim to power to resonate even there - which Israel, the West, and moderate arab regimes want to avoid at all costs.

[Vedubin01]

Who do you guys think pay for all the Israeli weapons and ecnomics?

Hows that Canadian exchange rate holding to the US dollar Lee?

[DCColegrove]

Everyone can quote scrape regurgitate and blather on...

Bottom line...

Hamas is one of several organisations that need eradicating... and if you buy into their propaganda you're an idiot.

[Vedubin01]

Everyone can quote scrape regurgitate and blather on...

Bottom line...

Hamas is one of several organisations that need eradicating... and if you buy into their propaganda you're an idiot.

Can I get a Southern Christian AMEN?

[DCColegrove]

Can I get a Southern Christian AMEN?

Well...

I'm a Buddhist with some Christian leanings but generally non religious...

[E-Thirty]

Is there something wrong with adding something to answer your question?

So one has to be from that area to know it's not one sided, is that right? So you can't have an opinion on our war in Iraq unless you are from that area.....lmao.
I'm not claiming to know everything. But I know Israel is doing much more than just defending themselves.

There are simple solutions. But neither side wants to do them. Therefore making them bad solutions.

Of course you can have an opinion. :D I wouldn't exactly call them simple solutions, but I agree that both parties don't seem very interested, which isn't to hard to understand when each side keeps suffering.

[Vedubin01]

Well...

I'm a Buddhist with some Christian leanings but generally non religious...

Thats cool, you can rub my belly!

[E-Thirty]

What an honor. :p

[joshh]

Everyone can quote scrape regurgitate and blather on...

Bottom line...

Hamas is one of several organisations that need eradicating... and if you buy into their propaganda you're an idiot.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you there. Hamas has played this almost perfectly. And they have gained huge support from Palestinians becuase of it.
Israel could rid themselves of Hamas and turn them into nothing more than a small group of underground extremeists.
But Israel has the same problem that the extremeist groups in Palestine have, they think they are always right. And refuse to back down. The only way for this to be fixed is for one side to back down and try to fix the past problems. And it wont be Palestine.

[joshh]

Actually, a large part of Israelis are not Zionists and want peace. They are willing for a lot of concessions to end this 60 year old war. The problem is a handfull of Jewish zealots, mainly represented by Zionist settlers (who come from all the countries in the world, but Israel - France, Central Europe, Russia etc) and Christian Fundamentalists, who still dream of the return the Big Israel they read in "books". They even fight against Israeli police and army. This right wing is the dangerous one. And sadly, the government has no choice but to take their voting power in account.

One other element that should be taken in account is the support from the US to Israel. That support is based on two things. The all powerfull american Jewish lobby, and Christian Fundamentalists. Who do you guys think pay for all the Israeli weapons and ecnomics?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_isra.htm

Agreed for the most part. There are groups within Israel that lobby for peace...and not just peace from the Palestinians. The Jewish lobby is very real.
Very very good post.

[Hallen]

Life is cheap. That is the impression you get when you go there. You don't get that impression in Tel Aviv. You do in Egypt and the Palestinian areas.

All I have to say is
Israel = The Rule of Law (it ain't perfect and the history is ugly, but what's new about that?)
Hamas and the like = Murderers.

If you can't tell the difference, then... well, there is nothing I can say to that.

Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people. There always comes a point where you must fight for your life or fight for your freedom. That is not what Hamas is about. They care about power, an extreme version of Islamic law, and killing Jews no matter where they are. They use the Palestinian people as a tool to protect their organization and to give them a foothold in the area. Palestinians would be much, much better off without the likes of Hamas.

Oh, and for that person who said you can easily tell Israelis and Palestinians apart... no, not really.

And let's not forget that Israel is surrounded by millions of people who want to kill them. We are not talking about an Olympic rivalry here or a general dislike, we are talking about rabid hatred. If Israel is not super strong, they will be wiped off the map. We are not talking about an invasion here with an occupying army. We are talking about genocide.

[DCColegrove]

^^^^^