USA's Continued Economic Suicide.

[nando]

This is relative really. Everyone is monetarily loose right now. We are actually printing tons of money, but still less than other countries comparitively. Were in a really odd economic situation right now, where we are experiencing deflation, but also simultaneously printing scads of money.

It completely defys the Quantity Theory of Money.

no it doesn't. Velocity is way, way down, normally the multiplier is something like 9-10x the actual quantity of cash in circulation. it's probably around 6-7, so to make up for the loss in liquidity they have to increase the quantity. If they weren't printing money we'd be in even more shit than we are now...

MV = PQ

[StereoInstaller1]

R3Vpocalypse is in 2012.

We are perfectly on target to hit that date in the middle of a "whole world meltdown".

The only thing that will survive are cockroaches and E30s.

[Farbin Kaiber]

What about their owners?

[blunttech]

What about their owners?

farbin , whats your take on "the international brotherhood of bong smokers local 420"
are dues out of control?

[Farbin Kaiber]

farbin , whats your take on "the international brotherhood of bong smokers local 420"
are dues out of control?

It's not the dues that the rank and file are at odds over, but if you try to get out and go smoke non-union somewhere else, they real quick like send out Guido the Toebreaker. In the past few years dues have gone up with productivity and quality of environment. California really has done everything in their power short of moving mountains to appease the Union as a whole.

[DCColegrove]

farbin , whats your take on "the international brotherhood of bong smokers local 420"
are dues out of control?

Correction: It's the IB of BS Local #13 you are talking about...

The Local 420 are Skinhead Cranksters.

[Vedubin01]

This is why the government cant be trusted to run your finances. They lost about $80 billion just in the bank bailout. Wonder who pocketed that?

Not me!



WASHINGTON (AP) - A government watchdog group says the federal government overpaid for stocks and other assets from financial institutions under its $700 billion rescue program. The chairwoman of the Congressional Oversight Panel for the bailout funds told the Senate Banking committee Thursday that Treasury in 2008 paid $254 billion and received assets worth about $176 billion.
The figures were reached by extrapolating the results of a study of 10 government transactions.
The Treasury by Jan. 23 had spent about $294 billion on more than 300 companies under the Troubled Asset Relief Program. In one bright spot, the inspector general in charge of reviewing the funds said the federal government has received more than $271 million in dividends from preferred shares obtained through the program.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D965HBF80&show_article=1

[Hallen]

How many people do you know that work their asses off and get paid what they deserve? Deserve not what they agreed to...Oh but that doesn't matter because they "agreed" to do the job for X amount of money.
Most companies will always pay as little as they "possibly" can instead of giving a guy a good wage. Then walk away because as you said "they took the risk".
But what you fail to see is your employees are your lifeblood if you own a company.
When you under pay people you tend to get shitty work. This of course is the opposite with the union.

"What they deserve"... well, I don't personally know anybody who gets paid what the think they deserve. But they all get paid what they deserve to get paid. Listen, this is a hard lesson, but it is reality: you get paid what you agreed to get paid. Period. That is fact. That is the way it is. You are not owed any more or any less. It is a contract that you agreed to.

If the owner wants to run off with all the profits, that is his prerogative. It can suck for employees, but, that's life.

I do not fail to see that employees are the lifeblood of just about any business. But, the fact remains, it is the business that makes that possible. I am an advocate for paying people appropriately and making sure you pay enough to get the best people. However, there is a line that you will not cross. It is plain stupid to over-pay your people as well.

Fixed wages are the death of competition and motivation. Why should I bust my butt and work hard when I know it isn't going to get me ahead and I know the slob working the same job as me is doing half as much, but getting paid just as much. And, I know he ain't getting fired anytime soon because he does OK work and he does just enough to stay under the radar. You will obviously bring your performance down to that lowest common denominator. It would be stupid to do otherwise.

Your assertion that unions provide high wages and therefore you get quality work is also flawed. It simply isn't true. When you get high wages because of nothing that you have personally done, it becomes expected and a entitled right. You get just as much apathy. If you really earn those pay hikes because of determination and exemplary work, then you are truly motivated to continue that kind of performance.

Now, again, I know that is a generalization as keeps being put out, but it is also true just as it is true that there are a lot of unscrupulous and greedy people out there who will take advantage of employees (but it is also a generalization to apply that to all business owners).

[Money$hit]

no it doesn't. Velocity is way, way down, normally the multiplier is something like 9-10x the actual quantity of cash in circulation. it's probably around 6-7, so to make up for the loss in liquidity they have to increase the quantity. If they weren't printing money we'd be in even more shit than we are now...

MV = PQ

My assumption is true holding velocity constant, should have specified.

[mrsleeve]

"What they deserve"... well, I don't personally know anybody who gets paid what the think they deserve. But they all get paid what they deserve to get paid. Listen, this is a hard lesson, but it is reality: you get paid what you agreed to get paid. Period. That is fact. That is the way it is. You are not owed any more or any less. It is a contract that you agreed to.

If the owner wants to run off with all the profits, that is his prerogative. It can suck for employees, but, that's life.

I do not fail to see that employees are the lifeblood of just about any business. But, the fact remains, it is the business that makes that possible. I am an advocate for paying people appropriately and making sure you pay enough to get the best people. However, there is a line that you will not cross. It is plain stupid to over-pay your people as well.

Fixed wages are the death of competition and motivation. Why should I bust my butt and work hard when I know it isn't going to get me ahead and I know the slob working the same job as me is doing half as much, but getting paid just as much. And, I know he ain't getting fired anytime soon because he does OK work and he does just enough to stay under the radar. You will obviously bring your performance down to that lowest common denominator. It would be stupid to do otherwise.

Your assertion that unions provide high wages and therefore you get quality work is also flawed. It simply isn't true. When you get high wages because of nothing that you have personally done, it becomes expected and a entitled right. You get just as much apathy. If you really earn those pay hikes because of determination and exemplary work, then you are truly motivated to continue that kind of performance.

Now, again, I know that is a generalization as keeps being put out, but it is also true just as it is true that there are a lot of unscrupulous and greedy people out there who will take advantage of employees (but it is also a generalization to apply that to all business owners).

Look I dont deny that this shit happens in and because of the unions it dose. But there are many union company's that pay more or add incentives for the best of the best help (I have always been in that group) to keep them. But the biggest thing is well run locals (far out number the corrupt ones) know who is who, they are weeding out the crappy hands. Those are normally the last to be working and the 1st to get the can. Most trades the contractor can refuse anyone that is sent to them for nearly any reason.

Its getting much much better than the stereotypical "Union" image, we have to clean house or we cant compete with the "unscrupulous and greedy people out there who will take advantage of employees" thats how the game is played now. We all have to play by those rules now union or not its just the way it is unfortunately it favors the latter.

Your assertion that unions provide high wages and therefore you get quality work is also flawed. It simply isn't true. When you get high wages because of nothing that you have personally done, it becomes expected and a entitled right. You get just as much apathy. If you really earn those pay hikes because of determination and exemplary work, then you are truly motivated to continue that kind of performance.

I take some serious offense to this, every one I have ever worked with has worked their ass off to get the point that they are at!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not an easy road to go down many times, many apprenticeships are very very hard to get into, eg. 600 guys after 20-30 spots 1 time a year. Its also fairly easy to wash out of them too in many cases, such as showing up late, bad class room performance, poor job performance and the standards are hard to meet. Yes you would get the can at a non union job too, thats my point.

My self I have never had to go through a formal apprenticeship I have been lucky to start at 90% or 100% of scale but thats a risk the contractor was willing to take based on my resume, my reputation and recommendations of my former bosses. I work hard to learn everything I can learn everyday, I make it a point to show my worth to my bosses by going the extra mile while on the clock and try to get more done than the next guy while maintaining quality, it becomes a competition between crews and production goes up. For this I get a bit of extra intensive that not many get, the big one is the high scale perdiem where ever I am at even when only the low one is supposed to be paid or any extra day (8 days paid perdiem rather then 7) where the high scale is normally paid. I get a extra day off paid when I sneak home for a few days or my boss covers my flight or both. I am really lucky I know but I worked my ass off to get it, so has a few of the other guys I work with to get the same insensitive, but on a whole the rest dont but they pull their weight and do hell of job at it, they all ask me how I do it, and I tell em its all in the guys who trained me (some old hands that have been at it for 40 years) and I got a few tricks.

[joshh]

"What they deserve"... well, I don't personally know anybody who gets paid what the think they deserve. But they all get paid what they deserve to get paid. Listen, this is a hard lesson, but it is reality: you get paid what you agreed to get paid. Period. That is fact. That is the way it is. You are not owed any more or any less. It is a contract that you agreed to.

If the owner wants to run off with all the profits, that is his prerogative. It can suck for employees, but, that's life.

I do not fail to see that employees are the lifeblood of just about any business. But, the fact remains, it is the business that makes that possible. I am an advocate for paying people appropriately and making sure you pay enough to get the best people. However, there is a line that you will not cross. It is plain stupid to over-pay your people as well.

Fixed wages are the death of competition and motivation. Why should I bust my butt and work hard when I know it isn't going to get me ahead and I know the slob working the same job as me is doing half as much, but getting paid just as much. And, I know he ain't getting fired anytime soon because he does OK work and he does just enough to stay under the radar. You will obviously bring your performance down to that lowest common denominator. It would be stupid to do otherwise.

Your assertion that unions provide high wages and therefore you get quality work is also flawed. It simply isn't true. When you get high wages because of nothing that you have personally done, it becomes expected and a entitled right. You get just as much apathy. If you really earn those pay hikes because of determination and exemplary work, then you are truly motivated to continue that kind of performance.

Now, again, I know that is a generalization as keeps being put out, but it is also true just as it is true that there are a lot of unscrupulous and greedy people out there who will take advantage of employees (but it is also a generalization to apply that to all business owners).

The funny part about of this post of yours is you agree with me....you just need to say it.
You're having to stretch what I said to make a point to contend with me about.
No one said to over pay anyone...that's one of your stretchings of what I said.

No, it is the employees that make that possible....don't go with the chicken or egg argument.

Ah yes so you do understand, you just don't want to say it. Sorry but that does happen and it happens a lot. One guy busts his ass while the next guy is whacking off yet they get paid the same. It's called work place politics, if you've ever worked at all you've seen it. And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

My "assertion" about Unions....LMFAO...go back and read. You've failed there. SOME Unions.

You're the one applying anything here to all bussiness workers...or you haven't been reading.

[nando]

My assumption is true holding velocity constant, should have specified.

right, unfortunately for us velocity is slowing faster than the fed can increase supply. :(

[Hallen]

Listen, guys, I am not, repeat NOT, saying that union workers can't and don't provide great services and earn their money. There are tons of hard working, good people out there who are union. I am sure you are part of that group. But please, don't equate non-union with bad work and poor conditions. It isn't true. And there are plenty of businesses out there who make a priority of taking care of their people. They don't do it because they fear a strike. They do it because it makes business sense.

I am just saying that without unions and maybe with a well run professional organization, you as hard working and skilled craftsmen would get more money, more respect and greater freedom. Let the cream rise to the top. The way you guys are describing your unions, it sounds more like a job shop than a union anyway.

But, unions still aren't the fundamental problem with the economy now anyway. No credit = slowed cash flow and no investment. Everything grinds to a halt. The "stimulus" package that looks to be on its way to passing is such a crock of waste that it is unbelievable. Hell, put Nando and Blunt in charge and he'll have it fixed in a few days. Instead we get a bunch of chuckle headed politicians slinging pork around thinking that we lowly and stupid herd beasts will think it is impressive.