Oregon drivers!

[CorvallisBMW]

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Do you really want the state having a GPS log of everywhere you go and when how long all that. Sounds kinda like a invasion of privacy to me, and some thing that could be abused very very easily. Sounds very Orwellian and shades of 1984 dose it not.

If you bothered to actaully look in to the project, you would see that it is not GPS based. It simply tallys your miles driven at each fill stop. It doesn't track where you drive.

[mrsleeve]

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ok I live in MT, I work all over the country, I get put on a job in OR for 2 months, do I get stuck with a Bill form OR at the end of the year, am I a tax cheat and a criminal if I dont have this equipment installed for the months I am working there.

Ok say I live in OR I still work all over the country, do I have to pay for 20k miles a year I drive even though only 3k of them were in OR.

Hallen points are much more valid than mine so I will repeat them for you. The people that drive more already pay more in the form of a fuel tax, They buy more gas that makes sense huh, you have to disclose the average annual millage you drive to you insurer when you get a new policy or at review time an you rate is based on that as well. SO all it is a new tax that will cost huge sums of money to get up and running, and what about all the older crappy cars or collector cars, who pays for the equipment to be installed the state of the owners???? Come on man even you can see that is not a good idea.

[mrsleeve]

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GAS IS ALREADY TAXED TO FUCKING HELL

Feds get 18.4 cents for every gallon

NE is 25.4 cents for gas and diesel per gallon
OR is 24 cents for Gas and diesel per gallon
MT is 27.75 cents for gas and 28.5 cents for diesel

plus you state sales tax on top of each gallon for total sale so you pay taxes on taxes.

look here for your appropriate sate and taxes
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

[CBi]

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GAS IS ALREADY TAXED TO FUCKING HELL

Well then what the fuck is the problem?

How is a fuel stop-to-fuel stop device or GPS or whatever going to make anything any different?

You have to put fuel in a vehicle to make it move. Gasoline is appropriately taxed, providing plenty of incentive to use more fuel-efficient vehicles.

If enthusiasts (like us) choose to drive for pleasure, or drive gas-guzzling vehicles, then we pay for it.

Gasoline tax = tax per mile driven
Big brother electronic device = tax per mile driven

Seriously, I don't get it.

[mrsleeve]

Well then what the fuck is the problem?

How is a fuel stop-to-fuel stop device or GPS or whatever going to make anything any different?

You have to put fuel in a vehicle to make it move. Gasoline is appropriately taxed, providing plenty of incentive to use more fuel-efficient vehicles.

If enthusiasts (like us) choose to drive for pleasure, or drive gas-guzzling vehicles, then we pay for it.

Gasoline tax = tax per mile driven
Big brother electronic device = tax per mile driven

Seriously, I don't get it.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding

You get it, its just another tax to raise income for the liberal hippes to keep spending a shit load more money, instead of cutting unnecessary spending they keep finding more new ways to tax the people out of more of their hard earned money. Its so much easier to spend it if its not yours.

"To save the planet", or "To reduce co2 emissions, the carbon foot print, or green house gasses" "To stop global warming or fucking Climate change" has replaced "for the sake of the children, or to protect the children" to get to pass stupid taxes and government expanding Legislation with little to no opposition, from the masses or law makers.

[clavinZERO]

Part of the reason they need to change the laws, apparently, is because more cars are getting more fuel efficient. The less gas you use, the less taxes the state collects on that gas per gallon, the less money the state has. It is a budget issue looking to offset a loss in funding.

[mrsleeve]

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then reduce needless spending. not replace it to keep wasting other peoples money.

[CorvallisBMW]

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GAS IS ALREADY TAXED TO FUCKING HELL

Feds get 18.4 cents for every gallon

NE is 25.4 cents for gas and diesel per gallon
OR is 24 cents for Gas and diesel per gallon
MT is 27.75 cents for gas and 28.5 cents for diesel

You think 46 cents justifies being 'taxed to fucking hell'? Good God you're dumb. I can find $0.46 in my couch.

[mrsleeve]

per gallon and then you pay sales tax on the .46 cents neat huh. Yes you and I may be able to find that in the cushions or our furniture but there are many many people that have a hard time paying for a full tank at these low prices.

do the fucking math it adds up fast,millions of gallons of fuel are sold per day in every fucking state in the union. We are not like Europe we pay for our gas and health care separately. If the fucking politicians would save and use that gas tax money for what it was intended for, INFRASTRUCTURE like roads, bridges and other public works stuff, we would have the best roads and bridges in the world and there would be no bitching about pot holes and deficant bridges. I-35 would not have fallen into the fucking Mississippi near gods country if the politicians had not squandered the money on other shit.

This is just an additional tax they will not remove the gas taxes but only hike them more in addition to the new snooping boxes they want installed in your car. If the govt is going to continue to push the Green agenda it needs to be prepared for the budget short fall and cut the needless spending or find a reasonable way to make it up and installing a per mile GPS deal in everyone's car is not a cost effective not prudent way to do that.

Also the more efficient cars line is crap, you take a car the get 30 mpg to car the gets around 20 mpg (most "evil huge" suvs) are close to this now and figure they driver 12k mikes a year thats a difference of 200gals a year thats 92 bucks less in taxes. that the state and feds get combined. Its not that big of a difference We dont need more taxes we need less and less shitty govt spending of all forms of our tax dollars.

[CorvallisBMW]

Also the more efficient cars line is crap, you take a car the get 30 mpg to car the gets around 20 mpg (most "evil huge" suvs) are close to this now and figure they driver 12k mikes a year thats a difference of 200gals a year thats 92 bucks less in taxes. that the state and feds get combined. Its not that big of a difference.

You're lack of understanding (and math skills) ares laughable. You're saying a 50% increase in MPG (20mpg to 30mpg) is going to have a negligible effect on the amount of gasoline consumed, and therefore tax dollars raised? Moving from a 20mpg car to 30mpg car means using 33% less fuel, and therefor 33% less tax is collected. That's 1/3 less road repair, 1/3 less infrastructure investment, 1/3 less repaving projects, etc. If you think that's insignificant, I challenge you to take a 33% pay cut and see how your life changes.

[mrsleeve]

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Did you miss the part about where they need to spend the money on the raods and not other needless wasteful programs What I am saying at wost case if every one switched over the ones that need the bigger shit will not, along with the poor who cant afford a newer car that gets 30mpg. There are only so many cheap beater civics, cavilers, escorts and metros to go around, that the govt will still receive the largest majority of what its getting now.

even with 4 dollar a gallon fuel you need to buy a shit load of fuel to make up the difference in the cost of a new/newer 30+mpg car. Thats why most people bitch piss and moan about fuel but dont swap cars out because they know it will take up wards of 3-5 years to make up the difference in yearly operating costs to justify financing a new car to save fuel or they dont want to drive a little shit box. Only the stupid ones think they will save a ton of money on fuel. even at 4+ a gallon and the amount I drive the difference is only a 4-500 a year in between a 16-18mpg diesel truck and a cheap gas 4 banger getting 30mpg. Thats less that 50 bucks a month over the year.


I ball parked 92 bucks to make a point seems its less than that by 12% or so. The state and feds need to be cutting spending and useing the tax dollars they get for the purpose they are intended. But will it ever happen no it wont

math lesson

12kmiles/ 30mpg= 400gal used ----> 400x.42= 168 dollars in tax moneys
12kmiles /20mpg= 600gal used ----> 600x.42= 250 dollars in tax moneys
thats a differance of 200 gal used ---> 200x.42=84 less dollars in tax moneys


I have taken pay cuts of way more than 33% try closer to 60% in some years where work has been slow. What did I do, I stoped buying shit other than the very basics, no sat TV, no internet, No beer, no Birth days or Xmass, nothing extra, We lived on rice and beans for 4 months one winter, had the cheapo T.P., had to sell lots of things to get through that winter. I had to make hard cuts in my life to fit with the money I had, this is just what GOVT. needs to do.

[Hallen]

You think 46 cents justifies being 'taxed to fucking hell'? Good God you're dumb. I can find $0.46 in my couch.

Wow, that has to be one of the most asinine statements I have heard hear yet. Yes it's a lot. At $4 per gallon, that's over 11%. If you have to pay sales tax, you get to add even more to that.

The government does not need to replace "revenue" (which it isn't, revenue is what you earn not what you take, but anyway...) that they are going to "lose" when people start driving more economical cars. They simply need to quit being so wasteful with our money and stop all their special little projects. They have their fingers in way too many places as it is. Plus, it is a fallacy to believe that the global warming hype or the latest fuel price surges are going to have any effect on what people drive. All of this happened in the 70s too. People still drive what they want to drive.

Don't start feeling bad for old Ted up there in Salem. He has plenty of money coming in. They don't know how to contract government so it keeps getting bigger and bigger every year. Yet they still can't find the money to properly fund the police and to maintain the roads. Funny how that works. They don't need another tax on driving, there are already enough.

With the Oregon EPA in charge of what "aftermarket" parts and even tires you put on your cars, you can be sure that you will also be paying through the nose for OEM parts. The whole thing stinks to hell. There is no real thought behind the latest crap coming from Salem. It is reactionary, plays on people's fears, is designed as yet another way to try and control the population. As soon as it is economically viable to use alternative fuels, most people will switch. Until then, they won't. The government can only artificially change that kind of thing and if they do, we all suffer the consequences.

Bah, trying to explain why taxes are bad to a person who believes that government is god and only god can save us from ourselves is pointless.

[mrsleeve]

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look at this we agree on something

[joshh]

Wow, that has to be one of the most asinine statements I have heard hear yet. Yes it's a lot. At $4 per gallon, that's over 11%. If you have to pay sales tax, you get to add even more to that.

The government does not need to replace "revenue" (which it isn't, revenue is what you earn not what you take, but anyway...) that they are going to "lose" when people start driving more economical cars. They simply need to quit being so wasteful with our money and stop all their special little projects. They have their fingers in way too many places as it is. Plus, it is a fallacy to believe that the global warming hype or the latest fuel price surges are going to have any effect on what people drive. All of this happened in the 70s too. People still drive what they want to drive.

Don't start feeling bad for old Ted up there in Salem. He has plenty of money coming in. They don't know how to contract government so it keeps getting bigger and bigger every year. Yet they still can't find the money to properly fund the police and to maintain the roads. Funny how that works. They don't need another tax on driving, there are already enough.

With the Oregon EPA in charge of what "aftermarket" parts and even tires you put on your cars, you can be sure that you will also be paying through the nose for OEM parts. The whole thing stinks to hell. There is no real thought behind the latest crap coming from Salem. It is reactionary, plays on people's fears, is designed as yet another way to try and control the population. As soon as it is economically viable to use alternative fuels, most people will switch. Until then, they won't. The government can only artificially change that kind of thing and if they do, we all suffer the consequences.

Bah, trying to explain why taxes are bad to a person who believes that government is god and only god can save us from ourselves is pointless.

:bow::bow::bow:

Exactly.
Now we need to get them to spend our money the way it should be spent.

[Hallen]

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look at this we agree on something

We probably agree on more than we disagree. I just put on my cranky internet persona sometimes and go on a rant. I end up sounding more crazy than I really am. :nice: