wtf is this GIVE act thing

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this is at the heart of this issue.

[Hallen]

I hope you don't think that's what I was asserting. I was just trying to point out that government statistics are best taken with a grain of salt. They have an agenda just like everyone else.

Yes, sorry about that. I made it sound like you said it wrong. Being skeptical about statistics is healthy and wise.

[Hallen]

There is no doubt that the current administration is using this "crisis" to further their own agenda instead of doing what is right. I am not sure it is a conspiracy, I think it is just opportunism. It does speak very strongly about their morals though.

However, if you want to look at it from a conspiracy perspective, it would be pretty easy considering the ties of the Democratic party and Obama to Freddy, Fanny, the incredibly stupid mandates on mortgage requirements, and the defeat of every single effort to control the chaos caused by these irresponsible government edicts and to control those insane derivatives markets, to what is happening now. I don't think they are really that smart or far-sighted personally, but it would be easy to tie together. Look at who was to gain the most from those government actions and you have the people responsible. Those people just happen to be in power right now. And they are making hay while the making is good.

[Julien]

To the nazi remarques:
The downside of the nazi regime is the oppression of jews/homosexuals/etc and the war against it's neighbors (for the creation of wealth and to propragate the "supreeme race" for the rest, the country was stronger and had a better infrastructure (like the german autobahn for instance) while the system was in place.

Now.. In which way shape or form is the current administration oppressing any ethic group? All I see, as a by-stander is a leader trying to unite america under one common goal to get through these tough times. The only idea combining the people in this effort is their love for their country, America. Imagine the benefits of a church group who has a specific task (ie cleaning up the neighborehood or helping the poor), wouldn't you see this as a postive action for the "geater good"? Now replace "church" group with "american" group...
Now, do you see the possibilities that Americans can have towards helping their beloved country and fellow Citizens?

In terms of government spending:
It is true that it is worrying how much the US's government is spending at the moment in an (so-called) effort to give the economy a jump start. No one can tell how efficient this method will be, but please stop with the Great Depression examples. If you stick by that Idea, indeed America needs a war (ie: wwII) to get the economy back on it's feet, right? Should I remind you how much spending the previous administration has put on the war in Iraq?

Lastly, this bill is only making you spend a few hours in your life with the common goal of creating a nicer place to live for you and your fellow neighbors.

You say Obama has created a Nazi regime?
I say GWB enslaved the middleclass to enrich the few ultra-rich in America!



Julien

[wildstoats]

here's something to watch for with the oman. there is speculation his stimulus, which any one with a brain knows was spending for his left agenda politically, was done on purpose - it would fail to stimulate and this would lead to the need to nationalize the banks. so now we have the treasury/fed asking and planning on laws that allow it to take over businesses deemed (by who else - the government) too important to fail. THIS SHIT IS REAL

grab the banks, bailout (nationalize) the papers as is being talked about, start national yute camps and where are you?

Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. There is nothing that Obama could have done to save the banks. They have been digging their own graves for over 20 years now it was just a matter of time before their dogma of "Infinite Growth" would blow up in their faces and that is what we're witnessing right now. I see things opposite from you it seems. I see the banks and other businesses as lining up at the public funding trough for a shot at free government money which we (taxpayers) will have to subsidize. In some misguided effort to return things to "the way they were". Nevermind the fact that the old status quo was obviously unsustainable (hence the current situation!). But it's easy to see why they yearn to prop up the old system. It's what kept Wall Street execs and Politicians fat and happy and they aren't going to give that up without a fight.

[E30 Cabrio]

While this does not meet the true definition of "fascism" it's the closest thing we've seen to it in years and the closest to it ever in this country.

And yes, Obama is using a crisis to push thru his fascist/marxist/socialist agenda.

The guy is like "Big Brother" from the book "1984" as he is on TV almost every night watching over us and repeating his mantra.

And the online Q & A session he did today? The main purpose of it was to gather email addresses. Just a big dog and pony show to gather information on the public to use when he runs again.

Obama has never accomplished anything noteworthy as an elected official. All he has done is run for the next higher office.

And now like a dog who chases cars, he has finally caught one and realizes he doesn't have a clue what to do with it and is in way over his head.

This guy is a disaster. Never could I have imagined he would go this far and this soon with his socialist/marxist agenda.

Inexperienced, dangerous, incompetent, arrogant, naive, etc...are not a good combination.

The only positive is that all the younger people who bought into the "Hope" and "Change" BS will be the ones paying for their ignorant choice to elect him for the rest of their lives thru higher taxes and thru mandatory/volunteerism/indoctrination.

And I can't even imagine what the Islamofascists who seek our demise are currently planning as Nero fiddles while Rome burns and runs around the country going on late night talk shows as if he's some kind of egotistical wannabe celebrity.

I have two nephews in the public school system and the propaganda they've been fed and are being fed is appalling.

They're not being educated, they're being indoctrinated and this new mandatory volunteerism is only going to indoctrinate even more young, impressionable children.

This is what they are doing to kids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tjbgJmLFg

[Julien]

While this does not meet the true definition of "fascism" it's the closest thing we've seen to it in years and the closest to it ever in this country.

And yes, Obama is using a crisis to push thru his fascist/marxist/socialist agenda.

The guy is like "Big Brother" from the book "1984" as he is on TV almost every night watching over us and repeating his mantra.

And the online Q & A session he did today? The main purpose of it was to gather email addresses. Just a big dog and pony show to gather information on the public to use when he runs again.

Obama has never accomplished anything noteworthy as an elected official. All he has done is run for the next higher office.

And now like a dog who chases cars, he has finally caught one and realizes he doesn't have a clue what to do with it and is in way over his head.

This guy is a disaster. Never could I have imagined he would go this far and this soon with his socialist/marxist agenda.

Inexperienced, dangerous, incompetent, arrogant, naive, etc...are not a good combination.

The only positive is that all the younger people who bought into the "Hope" and "Change" BS will be the ones paying for their ignorant choice to elect him for the rest of their lives thru higher taxes and thru mandatory/volunteerism/indoctrination.

And I can't even imagine what the Islamofascists who seek our demise are currently planning as Nero fiddles while Rome burns and runs around the country going on late night talk shows as if he's some kind of egotistical wannabe celebrity.

I have two nephews in the public school system and the propaganda they've been fed and are being fed is appalling.

They're not being educated, they're being indoctrinated and this new mandatory volunteerism is only going to indoctrinate even more young, impressionable children.

This is what they are doing to kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54tjbgJmLFg

Why are you soo angry? No happy ending lately?

[Turf1600]

I must be getting old or jaded - but I'm on blunt's side on this one.

I want Grover Cleveland back!

[Massive Lee]

So, I am quite surprised that after Hitler, Franco, Pol Pot, Stalin, Ayatollah Khomeni, the latest fascist in many people's mind is called Obama. If he is a fascist, I don't know what it makes his predecessor?

Good thread. Keep on pumping.

[dvs909]

To the nazi remarques:

Now.. In which way shape or form is the current administration oppressing any ethic group?

You say Obama has created a Nazi regime?
I say GWB enslaved the middleclass to enrich the few ultra-rich in America!

Julien

no matter what truths i said to you it wouldnt change your mind would it?

[E30 Cabrio]

Why are you soo angry? No happy ending lately?

Yes, because you didn't come by last night like you usually do.

Seriously though, I'm not "angry" I just don't like what this clown is doing to our country.

Tripling the deficit and forcing people into "volunteering" to become "community organizers" isn't my idea of a good time.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Fuck, I have been hunting for a quote for about a day and a half for this thread. I just cant find it, so I'll paraphrase.

"The way to bring Communism to America is to disguise it in the clothing of Democracy"

I read it on Survivalblog.com a while back, and the correct quote rings well in this thread.

[gwb72tii]

there is already nearly 1 private sector job for every government job, be it state, fed or local. what you're left with is 1/2 of the workforce paying for the other half. this is a recipe for disaster.

here's something to watch for with the oman. there is speculation his stimulus, which any one with a brain knows was spending for his left agenda politically, was done on purpose - it would fail to stimulate and this would lead to the need to nationalize the banks. so now we have the treasury/fed asking and planning on laws that allow it to take over businesses deemed (by who else - the government) too important to fail. THIS SHIT IS REAL

this should chill every citizen- lib or conservative - to the core

grab the banks, bailout (nationalize) the papers as is being talked about, start national yute camps and where are you?

1939 germany

oh, and i forgot ex-post facto laws that punish specific individuals or groups for behavior deemed to be "bad" by the government like the AIG folks who were legally paid a bonus.
now, which is so fucking unbelievable it absolutely blows my mind, barney frank is asking for the names of those that received their bonus, legally, and refuse to pay it back. when asked by the ceo of AIG if frank would keep the names confidential, he refused to say he would, pretty much guaranteeing their names would be made public.
these are public officials of oman's party wanting to incite a public lynching, literally, of someone who broke no law but now is held in contemp by the government.
obama should publicly repudiate frank, denounce him, yet gives his implicit approval by remainig silent.
THIS SHIT IS REAL TOO.
it's fucking scary as hell.

i mean, how would you like to be the young graduate that went to work there, fulfilled all your obligations and earned a contractually promised bonus, which the federal government agreed to, and now they want to make your name public/
would that shit scare you?
what is to stop them from doing it to any of us?

where is the rule of law? isn't obama, by oath, obligated to uphold the constitution? or is it just an empty campaign promise?

[Massive Lee]

In regard of AIG's bonuses. Yeah sure. Bonuses are great, when economics allow it. That company would have been extinct a few months ago if not for Obama's money. So I guess things were not going that great, hence no bonuses to be distributed. Simple.

After thinking, I would have left all the banks sink. Who needs bankers anyway?

Lee

[gwb72tii]

In regard of AIG's bonuses. Yeah sure. Bonuses are great, when economics allow it. That company would have been extinct a few months ago if not for Obama's money. So I guess things were not going that great, hence no bonuses to be distributed. Simple.

After thinking, I would have left all the banks sink. Who needs bankers anyway?

Lee

it's not that simple lee. legal obligations entered into by contract are binding, no matter what, even if one side doesn't like it