Sweet, just noticed this forum.

[Kershaw]

Providing the means to get the same results should count.

Not sure on your meaning here because neither are remotely comparably in terms of "the same results." And if the whole region hadn't been destabilized, I doubt we would have poked our head in there in the first place.

[Dozyproductions]

Let's look at libya. Universal housing, education, healthcare. Questionable 'rebel' group comes in and destroys the infastructure of the country. From there, oil production, the bread and butter of the country, is down (estimated further decline) , +400,000 refugees, thousands dead and no central power scheme in place. Did I forget to mention that's because ISIS is in town baby... sorry, the original rebels allied themselves to ISIS afterwards. Okay, so even worse. Sure Gaddafi was a dick, but getting rid of him was not worth the power vaccuum... sounds like IRAQ BY ANY CHANCE ASSHOLE??

You know what's happening to Syria. We're backing anti Syrian militia's. ISIS is one of those. ISIS has American weapons and ammunition. We are indirectly/directly involved with that CRISIS.

So same song and dance. So yes they count or are you so desensitized by bush's mistakes and subsequent ensuing tragedies and violence that you wan't to overlook Obama's just because he gave us healthcare? Or that since we don't have boots on the ground that everything is good.

Oh yeah, then you give me the right wing argument, well if the region wasn't already destabilized... yada yada. Who the fuck do you think does that? I wonder what resource is in the middle east that other world powers depend on, and with whose homies are the benefactors? And please, don't depend on the semantics of an overly simplistic forum answer as your only means to a counter argument. It's predictable, old, and tiring...but perhaps I should just look at the source?

[Thunder Child]

Obama has done an adequate job with a do-nothing republican congress. He could have been better, could have been worse. Economy is heading in right direction. Gas is cheap. We are (Somehow, kinda maybe) getting out of the middle east. Bin Laden is dead. Consumer confidence and stock market is healthy. He failed to deliver on some promises but candidates have big mouths and presidents really cant do that much.

[mrsleeve]

LOL your funny, What about those 2 years when he not only had a majority but a supper majority in both houses and got nothing accomplished .....

Gas is not cheap due to Obama directly, its largely due to his ASININE Iran deal, and like I said in the other thread oil this cheap is NOT A GOOD THING especially for the US domestic economy.... While there are many reason the White house wants oil to be cheap, NONE of them are a good thing for the USA, and the sad thing is 90 % of the people in this country are too stupid to get that.

Economy is not healthy, consumer confidence is up because all of the rounds of Q/E have staved off the inevitable, and people are saying fuck it I need shit now or are just plain stupid....

Market is also not healthy and there are a plethora of reasons for it, but in general is way over valued and we are in the initial phase of a big correction, and lets hope that's all it is

[flyboyx]

^this

[Dozyproductions]

The next crash is around the corner. I also remember Obama promising to be the most transparent presidency ever... LOL.

[Wschnitz]

Yeah, so we should be the curve and preemptively give wall street more leeway so they can fuck it up again.

[marshallnoise]

Let's look at libya. Universal housing, education, healthcare. Questionable 'rebel' group comes in and destroys the infastructure of the country. From there, oil production, the bread and butter of the country, is down (estimated further decline) , +400,000 refugees, thousands dead and no central power scheme in place. Did I forget to mention that's because ISIS is in town baby... sorry, the original rebels allied themselves to ISIS afterwards. Okay, so even worse. Sure Gaddafi was a dick, but getting rid of him was not worth the power vaccuum... sounds like IRAQ BY ANY CHANCE ASSHOLE??

You know what's happening to Syria. We're backing anti Syrian militia's. ISIS is one of those. ISIS has American weapons and ammunition. We are indirectly/directly involved with that CRISIS.

So same song and dance. So yes they count or are you so desensitized by bush's mistakes and subsequent ensuing tragedies and violence that you wan't to overlook Obama's just because he gave us healthcare? Or that since we don't have boots on the ground that everything is good.

Oh yeah, then you give me the right wing argument, well if the region wasn't already destabilized... yada yada. Who the fuck do you think does that? I wonder what resource is in the middle east that other world powers depend on, and with whose homies are the benefactors? And please, don't depend on the semantics of an overly simplistic forum answer as your only means to a counter argument. It's predictable, old, and tiring...but perhaps I should just look at the source?

Good points!

This is where a Rand Paul semi-isolationism is warranted. I think we should have a big strong military, but use it for protecting us. Not for nation building or strongarming other countries.

The hawks on the right are cut from the same cloth as the hawks on the left. The only difference is when either one is in power is who is getting a cut from the large corporations that benefit.

The whole Syria thing is so fucked up. We speak out of one side of our neck that ISIS is bad, yet we are funding and arming them out of the other side of the neck. It's not being reported and the 4th estate is failing us. They 4th estate thinks they can shape policy. No different than the 5th estate of public employee unions.

The government has too much power. If they had less power, the 4th and 5th would lose interest in shaping policy themselves and we can get back to just living in peace.

[marshallnoise]

LOL your funny, What about those 2 years when he not only had a majority but a supper majority in both houses and got nothing accomplished .....

Gas is not cheap due to Obama directly, its largely due to his ASININE Iran deal, and like I said in the other thread oil this cheap is NOT A GOOD THING especially for the US domestic economy.... While there are many reason the White house wants oil to be cheap, NONE of them are a good thing for the USA, and the sad thing is 90 % of the people in this country are too stupid to get that.

Economy is not healthy, consumer confidence is up because all of the rounds of Q/E have staved off the inevitable, and people are saying fuck it I need shit now or are just plain stupid....

Market is also not healthy and there are a plethora of reasons for it, but in general is way over valued and we are in the initial phase of a big correction, and lets hope that's all it is

Gas isn't cheap in California. While the rest of the nation can refine oil, we have shut all of them down. So combine an inept federal government with an inept/dangerous state government, you get the worst of it.