Is it time to revolt?

[E30Kaiser]

Hell, Robert E Lee lived in the north until he let the confederate army. He didn't even hold slaves! In fact, you could argue that slaves in the north were treated worse than their colleagues in the south.

Lee did hold Slaves, and did live in the South, unless you don't count Arlington and Northern VA as the South.

[87e30]

You're basically saying that it wasn't about slaves but it was. The whole reason that it was an issue to begin with was because the North abolished slavery and wouldn't let it expand into the West.

But you're missing the point, slavery wasn't the motive. Factor, not motive.

[Turf1600]

Lee did hold Slaves, and did live in the South, unless you don't count Arlington and Northern VA as the South.

He did not live in virginia at the time of the war nor did he hold slaves. He led the confederate army because he would not fight against his fellow virginians.

You're basically saying that it wasn't about slaves but it was. The whole reason that it was an issue to begin with was because the North abolished slavery and wouldn't let it expand into the West.

This is incorrect for several reasons. Missouri was the last state where slaves were viable. As the US expanded the balance of power would shift to the industrialized north (as far as they knew - in retrospect california would have been a good fit). Civil war was the only card the south could play. If they had waited any longer they would have been a minority in the house and the senate. So, no it wasn't about slaves. It was about the southern economy being threatened by expanding industrialism. Even if the slaves were freed in the south they would have no choice but to be tenant farmers. In fact, that's exactly what happened.

[Turf1600]

You know, contrary to popular belief slaves were not cheap. Sharecropping/tenant farming was far less expensive.

[Scallywagon]

If you live in CA you should feel its about time to revolt. Screw the president, this place has fucked itself up all on its own.

this

[reelop19]

I lolz'd at the comment that slavery was far worse in the North. Slavery in the South must have been like a night at the Ritz huh?

[Erik]

Soooo should we revolt?

[Wiglaf]

The problem with revolting is finding someone to get behind that actually has a better idea. Some of these people know how to collect kneejerks, but THEN WHAT.

[E30Kaiser]

He did not live in virginia at the time of the war nor did he hold slaves. He led the confederate army because he would not fight against his fellow virginians.

He did have slaves working his land in Arlington, and he was in control of his father-in-law's slaves after his death. His home was Arlington right up until the war started as well, though he may have been living somewhere else at the time due to his military service. To say "Hell, Robert E Lee lived in the north until he let the confederate army." Makes it seem like you are trying to say he wasn't even a true Southerner, so I misunderstood the meaning behind what you meant.

[Turf1600]

He did have slaves working his land in Arlington, and he was in control of his father-in-law's slaves after his death. His home was Arlington right up until the war started as well, though he may have been living somewhere else at the time due to his military service. To say "Hell, Robert E Lee lived in the north until he let the confederate army." Makes it seem like you are trying to say he wasn't even a true Southerner, so I misunderstood the meaning behind what you meant.

He was as southerner as they come. But he was approached by the north regarding being a commander before he joined forces with the confederacy - and every interpretation I've read implied that he did so for sake of loyalty rather than just cause.

I lolz'd at the comment that slavery was far worse in the North. Slavery in the South must have been like a night at the Ritz huh?

I said "you could argue that". There are well documented arguments for each side. We must remember that northerners began the slave trade before realizing that cold weather wasn't suitable for cold weather (meaning longevity became an issue). Only after this realization did slavery flourish in the south. AND only after industrialization did the north condemn slavery. Go figure, right?

[z31maniac]

Okay so there were political motivations behind it but that doesn't mean that Lincoln and the North didn't personally agree with it. You guys are essentially saying that because there were political motivations behind abolishing slavery, it was not a "real" reason.

Do you know what Altruism is?

Nevermind, it's apparently obvious nothing gets through that baked skull of yours.

[ben312]

You know, contrary to popular belief slaves were not cheap. Sharecropping/tenant farming was far less expensive.

Very true. In fact slaves today, and in this country, are cheaper then they were in slave trade times.

[Turf1600]

Very true. In fact slaves today, and in this country, are cheaper then they were in slave trade times.

That's because they come over here willingly. Saves on shipping and handling.

[BillBrasky]

Saves on shipping and handling.

What can brown do for you?

[Turf1600]

Zing!