Israel just doesn't get it...

[jrhaile]

you call what we have been doing in the middle east of the past 50 years
"working", Hello, if it was working we would not be there. It is time to do something different, if it does not work we can try something else that does not work.

hmm, that theory of blindly backing Isreal has not and will not work. Obama has not hung Isreal out to dry by saying we are looking in to it, He is buying time. How is being diplomatic to Islamic dumb. Not all Islamic are suicide bombers. Iran is just as slighted as Isreal, I honsetly believe the only way there will be peace in the middle east is through talks and then through breeding the hate out, meaning if we can get peace now the children of the children of today will have never known the resentment of the past. That is how long it will take. You can not kill your way into tranquility

I somehow missed this post when skimming through...

There are degrees of "working" and not having a major military conflict in an area with tension as high as Obama at a Tea Party movement in my book is "working." The last time I seem to remember a military conflict, Israel kicked the living shit out of 3 or 4 nations in what, 6 days?

Let me tell you a story about my childhood... there was a kid down the road named Jake. I used to pick on him and what not but never beat him up or anything because Jake had 2 big brothers who would smash me if I did. As soon as those 2 big brothers of his went off to College, Jake and I had a little fight and I didn't even think twice about kicking his ass because I knew there was nothing his big brothers could do about it (at least until Christmas :D). This is how the Middle East has been operating for some time. Other nations and organizations have been fucking with Israel for quite some time now but never actually picked a real major fight because they KNEW America would back Israel and wipe them out faster then they could bend over and praise Allah. It might not be a perfect solution but it is one that at least gives hope for talk as you suggest. By the US not backing Israel anymore, there is no deterrent for Syria, Iran, Hamas, Etc to pick that fight with Israel.

I hope I have made myself a bit more clear.

[z31maniac]

Could Gaza be Israel's own Vietnam? Actually, the Lebanon war was its first Vietnam. Therefore Gaza could be the second Vietnam for Israel.
Not to mention that while during WW2, Eastern European Jews were brutally herded in Warsaw and left there starving to death (for many) until heading to death camps, Israel is doing the exact same thing in Gaza. Very ironic.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Isr...90112-776.html

A bit presumptive in spots, but a very interesting/good article.

Although it mentions nothing in the article of herding Gaza inhabitants into death camps to starve.

[ACMF74]

I somehow missed this post when skimming through...

There are degrees of "working" and not having a major military conflict in an area with tension as high as Obama at a Tea Party movement in my book is "working." The last time I seem to remember a military conflict, Israel kicked the living shit out of 3 or 4 nations in what, 6 days?

Let me tell you a story about my childhood... there was a kid down the road named Jake. I used to pick on him and what not but never beat him up or anything because Jake had 2 big brothers who would smash me if I did. As soon as those 2 big brothers of his went off to College, Jake and I had a little fight and I didn't even think twice about kicking his ass because I knew there was nothing his big brothers could do about it (at least until Christmas :D). This is how the Middle East has been operating for some time. Other nations and organizations have been fucking with Israel for quite some time now but never actually picked a real major fight because they KNEW America would back Israel and wipe them out faster then they could bend over and praise Allah. It might not be a perfect solution but it is one that at least gives hope for talk as you suggest. By the US not backing Israel anymore, there is no deterrent for Syria, Iran, Hamas, Etc to pick that fight with Israel.

I hope I have made myself a bit more clear.

exactly....

[z31maniac]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...estinians.aid/


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Massive Lee]

You seem to forget WHY they got that land given back to them...

Please explain the portion about "given back to them"...

Lee

[Massive Lee]

Although it mentions nothing in the article of herding Gaza inhabitants into death camps to starve.

What do you think Israel has ben doing with Gaza? Open the TV. It's all there in the news. At least, the Germans didn't bomb Warsaw as hard as the Israelis did on Gaza...

[jrhaile]

Please explain the portion about "given back to them"...

Lee

That's your only retort? We could go back in history a long, long ways but and argue whose land it really is but the Ottoman empire fell because they sided with Hitler. You know, the mass murdered who killed a documented 6 million Jews, Poles, Gypsie's, etc?

I don't hear you or anyone else complaining about how we kicked the shit out of the Native American's and put them onto tiny plots of land throughout our country. Why aren't you crying foul there? Shit, even the Indian's aren't crying foul. They have moved on and bettered themselves and adapted to what is considered an advanced civilization.

[Aptyp]

Alright, I have two final papers due tomorrow, as well as a seminar I need to attend after school, so I'm gonna drop a few lines before I'm out.
My main point:
-Israel is a pathetic excuse for a country, their entire 'country' is built on crimes against humanity-against the Palestinian People. They treat them like fucking shit. It's heart-wrenching to see families torn apart, little children killed, separated from the mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters. Now, I don't support suicide bombing, or killed Israeli civilians who mind their own business. I am not anti-Semitic, a lot of my best friends are Jewish. I have Jewish family and relatives. I was born in America. I love my country. I also support the Iranian people, whom I share my blood with. I believe that they are some of the sadly, most misunderstood people in the world. They are no different than us, and the average Iranian is much more intellectual than the average..cough cough...Southern Redneck. Now, before I start another thread war, I have nothing against the people of the South, except for the one's who are too mentally incapable of properly judging people on the other side of the world, and are too ignorant to differentiate between Arabs and Iranians. I am seeing a lot of anti-Islamic hate in this thread as well, to those who I may call on, I pity you for missing out on so much, due to your conceited ignorance.

Now, a simple question to you, regarding a situation, far too common amongst the Palestinian people, especially from a young child's point of view. How would you feel if some "soldiers" with guns bust into your house, put your parents at gun point, force you out of your house, and/or kill you? Now wouldn't you swear it your life's mission to seek revenge on a group of people who have destroyed your life, and everything you loved?

First of, this thread had little to do with Iranian or muslim persecution. So as far as I'm concerned, you're playing a race card. No one is trying to differentiate Persians and Arabs and all other division Islam has created for itself in order to fight their own wars. Having said that, as far as this thread is concerned, fuck Iran (country, not people) for supporting terrorist organizations.

On the second note of Israel killing Palestinians: YES. If it's not Egypt, it's Gaza. If it's not Gaza, it's Lebanon. If not Lebanon, it's Syria. If not Syria, some crazy-ass regime takes over somewhere to start rocketing the shit out of Israel. Thank god for Mediterranean, otherwise shit be flying in from every side.

When Gaza was launching rockets, Israel pushed them 10 miles out. Gaza's response? Get longer range rockets. So Israel moved them again... and again... and again. At some point someone has to say, let's not launch rockets, right? Israel has been dropping flyers for years asking palestinian citizens to help fight against terrorism. Well, how are people, who want peace, supposed to work with Israel with Hamas at helm?

US helps Israel a lot, and so they should. Along with Israel's tactical geographical location, US also works with their intelligence agencies. After that we can't forget all of the weapon trades. Israel is one ally that truly matters in UN. Israel is one country that no matter what happens, trades in US dollars with Turkey and other Euro nations.

Also, before blaming Israel for Muslims hating Amercia, let's not forget CIA "Blowback" named AL-Qaeda. Also, let's not forget "Muslim Brotherhood" that originated in Egyptian prisons when US was present there, and founded by an exchange student to US, who thought Americans were sinners and didn't follow Quran (no shit) and this was before Israel. As always, Holmes is the one in the dark, talking shit.

Excuse? Are you fucking kidding? From the beginning of time the Jews have been persecuted 1000000000000x worse than any other race or religion in existence. Your comments are just flat out inflammatory and racist. You waffleswaffleswaffleswaffless in this thread call me a racist but then this guy has the nerve to even hint at the fact that Jews are just making it up and using what has happened to them as people as an "excuse?" It blows my mind that people in this day and age even think like this. You poke a cage animal enough and eventually IT WILL FIGHT BACK.

He's Canadian... what the fuck would he know about fighting for freedom, liberation, independence and victories, eh?

[jrhaile]

What do you think Israel has ben doing with Gaza? Open the TV. It's all there in the news. At least, the Germans didn't bomb Warsaw as hard as the Israelis did on Gaza...

Oh please dude.. they're bombing the Gaza strip because there is constantly rockets and other ammunition being fired into Israel on a daily basis from those in the Gaza strip. What are they supposed to do? Wave their fingers at them?

[jrhaile]

First of, this thread had little to do with Iranian or muslim persecution. So as far as I'm concerned, you're playing a race card. No one is trying to differentiate Persians and Arabs and all other division Islam has created for itself in order to fight their own wars. Having said that, as far as this thread is concerned, fuck Iran (country, not people) for supporting terrorist organizations.

On the second note of Israel killing Palestinians: YES. If it's not Egypt, it's Gaza. If it's not Gaza, it's Lebanon. If not Lebanon, it's Syria. If not Syria, some crazy-ass regime takes over somewhere to start rocketing the shit out of Israel. Thank god for Mediterranean, otherwise shit be flying in from every side.

When Gaza was launching rockets, Israel pushed them 10 miles out. Gaza's response? Get longer range rockets. So Israel moved them again... and again... and again. At some point someone has to say, let's not launch rockets, right? Israel has been dropping flyers for years asking palestinian citizens to help fight against terrorism. Well, how are people, who want peace, supposed to work with Israel with Hamas at helm?

US helps Israel a lot, and so they should. Along with Israel's tactical geographical location, US also works with their intelligence agencies. After that we can't forget all of the weapon trades. Israel is one ally that truly matters in UN. Israel is one country that no matter what happens, trades in US dollars with Turkey and other Euro nations.

Also, before blaming Israel for Muslims hating Amercia, let's not forget CIA "Blowback" named AL-Qaeda. Also, let's not forget "Muslim Brotherhood" that originated in Egyptian prisons when US was present there, and founded by an exchange student to US, who thought Americans were sinners and didn't follow Quran (no shit) and this was before Israel. As always, Holmes is the one in the dark, talking shit.




He's Canadian... what the fuck would he know about fighting for freedom, liberation, independence and victories, eh?

Well he personally probably doesn't know jack shit, but the Canadian's served in WW2 with great honor. You can't take that away from them and their veterans.

[freeride53]

Leave it to someone from California to not get it

ahahaha, you're too predictable.

I'm actually a Russian Jew from Moscow ;)

and I'm a Persian-Armenian/Mixed American, Mainly agnostic, from San Mateo. I feel that I too am justified in what I say, and everyone is to their own opinion. Having Lived within the Persian culture, it's plainly sad that some of you guys would support bombing Iran. Bombing a country is a terrible thing in general, killing innocent civilians and such. However, it can be justified in some cases. I, and many others, just do not find it justifiyable in the case of Iran. There is just too much there to be wiped out, and if Israel knows what's best for itself, they won't dare to mess with Iran. It would most-certainly escalate into something, much, much larger.

[Aptyp]

Well he personally probably doesn't know jack shit, but the Canadian's served in WW2 with great honor. You can't take that away from them and their veterans.

It was just a jab at Lee, never means anything, just like most of the stuff he writes in political forums.

[Massive Lee]

That's your only retort?

Please answer the question. How was the land taken? When? By whom?

[Dozyproductions]

What do you think Israel has ben doing with Gaza? Open the TV. It's all there in the news. At least, the Germans didn't bomb Warsaw as hard as the Israelis did on Gaza...

ha. Over 90% of that city was systematically raised to the ground.

[jrhaile]

ahahaha, you're too predictable.



and I'm a Persian-Armenian/Mixed American, Mainly agnostic, from San Mateo. I feel that I too am justified in what I say, and everyone is to their own opinion. Having Lived within the Persian culture, it's plainly sad that some of you guys would support bombing Iran. Bombing a country is a terrible thing in general, killing innocent civilians and such. However, it can be justified in some cases. I, and many others, just do not find it justifiyable in the case of Iran. There is just too much there to be wiped out, and if Israel knows what's best for itself, they won't dare to mess with Iran. It would most-certainly escalate into something, much, much larger.

I'm not suggesting that bombing Iran is the answer. I'm suggesting that Israel CANNOT let Iran get a Nuclear Weapon with that nutjob at the helm and no support from the US. Israel will very likely will be forced to do something about it. It's like a poker game when someone is forcing your hand by raising just a little bit here and there. Eventually you have to go all in.

What is truly sad is the missed opportunity in 2009 to overthrow the regime in Iran. Not only did the US not do anything to help those protesting, but neither did the rest of the world. It could have been a major turning point for peace in that area as Syria would have no one else to back them. Organization's like Hamas and Hezbollah (sp) would have stopped receiving funding and arms and eventually been squashed much like Al-Quada has. They would have been turned into a small parasite.

Iranian's as a whole are good people as are much of the Muslim world. The problem is, the good people won't do anything about the bad people thus making them as much at fault as the evil ones.