War on Terror a ruse

[Ryan Stewart]

100% correct. But Afghanistan is a corridor for transporting gas and oil from the Caspian sea to Pakistan, India, and even Russia. And from Russia to European countries. Whoever controls the path, controls energy itself.

Your geography is a bit off. India and Pakistan possibly but not Europe (on the wrong side, they get their shit through the Ukraine) and not Russia (they border the sea and if they wanted a shorter route are more cozy with Kazakhstan).

So, if you are saying we invaded a nation to control oil and gas from a sea (that we dont source from at all) to help build pipelines to Pakistan and India (who are non-involved, and at cold war with eachother) I think your theory holds about as much water as a collander.

[Massive Lee]

http://members.localnet.com/~jeflan/jfafghanpipe.htm

"The US government Energy Information fact sheet on Afghanistan dated December 2000 says that.."Afghanistan's significance from an energy standpoint stems from its geographic position as a potential transit route for oil and natural gas exports from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea. This potential includes proposed multi-billion dollar oil and gas export pipelines through Afghanistan..."

[mrsleeve]

100% correct. But Afghanistan is a corridor for transporting gas and oil from the Caspian sea to Pakistan, India, and even Russia. And from Russia to European countries. Whoever controls the path, controls energy itself.

lee are you sure you dont want to rethink this Position before you look really stupid


Dont say I didnt give you a chance

Damm Firefox crash wiped out 45 mins worth of typing so this will be a little less involved

Here is a visual aid to help with the geography of the situation

Inside the Green Circle is where the oil is

Inside the Blue circle where the caspian sea is, notice how it does not touch Afghanistan

Inside the pink circle is where Iran (where the oil is) touches Pakistan a much safer route for a mulit billion dollar pipe line dont you think than through war torn Afghanistan



Afghanistan Has nothing but a few small pipelines to deliver product to them only. You have been a fool to build a investment like a large bore transmission line in a place like that when a war breaks out or a Regime change can shut you down and your line and support facilities would become a primary target for sabotage and political unrest


Yes your right there is a NG line purposed to run 56" high pressure (about 1500psi working pressure) from the Caspian region Gas fields to the Pakies via Afghanistan the TAP or TAPI. This was purposed in 96-97 and has been thought god knows how many changes and plan revisions since then. Last I heard the company purposing to build this sent it out to open season Bid (to see who and how much gas will be bought under 20-25 year contract) to see if the multi Billion dollar investment is viable or not this was in 2008 IIRC. Given the current price of steel and man power to go in there and build it, its going to be a long shot. There is another line purposed to to run from Iran's southern NG fields to the pakies and India as well. all though I know little about this one. But it would be the safer alternative route for a multitude of reasons. Oh long time subscriber to the pipe line Journal.

here is a map of both PURPOSED lines Frankly given the situation I dont see either of the getting built.



To say that the Russians need the Afgan corridor to get resources is foolish at best. They have huge reserves of both oil and NG, They export the shit, matter of fact they just found a big deposit of Shale gas in the western part some where. Afghanistan is a waste land, its hard to walk across let alone build a pipeline. The logistics involved are incredible, for some thing that big on good flat ground let alone Hill and mountain work.

Moral of the story, NO ONE NEEDS AFGHANISTAN TO MOVE ENERGY AROUND TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE. There is no Energy NONE Crossing though Afghanistan currently, Someone wants to build A Singular pipeline, that has been in the works for 13 years. Its not going to happen and if it dose it will be due to American involvement stabilizing the shit hole.


Edit finally found the map I was looking for. This map show the bulk of the MAJOR transmission lines in eurasia and most of the purposed ones. AS you can plainly see there is NOTHING IN Afghanistan they have nothing of value not even as a transport hub or vital route. There is nothing to do with oil at all with the involvement of the USA there.

Turkmenistan does not need to sell its gas from its SE fields to the Pakies or Indians, the Chinese will gladly buy up all they can. And they already have planed pipeline route to that end.

[Massive Lee]

Read above (post #17). Reading could also make you less stupid.

[Ryan Stewart]

Read above (post #17). Reading could also make you less stupid.

Maybe you should try it, what you posted does not support your previous statement (Its also just a blog). It simply states it as part of a pipeline from central asia to the arabian sea, which still doesnt have much of an impact on Russia, Europe or the US.

[joshh]

I'm going back to the ridiculous title of this thread.
Might as well start with "Bush kills 3000 American citizens so he can send Haliburton to Iraq to pump oil".

It is a war on terror and the retard you voted in is a terrorist sympathizer. Plain and simple. Yeah I'm talking about Obama.

[Kershaw]

ok

[87e30]

Umm. I actually read that article, but it raised a lot of BS detectors for me. I will admit that I'm rather uninformed about the war, but the article made claims like "nothing" has happened, and we haven't captured any terrorists. I'm quite sure those are both bold and false claims.

[Stephen]

It is a war on terror and the retard you voted in is a terrorist sympathizer. Plain and simple. Yeah I'm talking about Obama.

:rofl:

[Wiglaf]

oh jeesus.. some of you are so short-sighted. Since there's no oil in Afganistan I guess that means all of this has NOTHING to do with oil. I'm sure that those people just woke up one day and decided to hate us purely over religious reasons because our demoratic capitalist lifestyle is just so awesome that it can send people into a fanatical rage. Oh wait I know, it must be because there's so many christians over here! Yeah that'll motivate a family into a multigenerational geurilla warfare lifestyle.

Must be nice to live in such an ignorant bliss.

Hey while we're in the business of making enemies, maybe we should help the Mexican druglords overthrow the Mexican government. It'll be all right, the next president will just kiss some ass to smooth things over when they get powerful enough.

[ck_taft325is]

Well, I'd say there was ambition of oil dreams involved, but is this or SHOULD this be a primary cause for heading to war over there? I don't think so, but then again I'll be the first to say that I (nor anyone else and here in particular) has all the pieces of the puzzle. I know a ton of Soldiers glad to have served in Iraq, despite the personal non-safety and the shit they had to deal with.

Imagine if you will that none of us has a full picture of why, how or what is happening over there exactly. There's factors that we haven't even brought into this debate. Such as the apologetic-ness America has been told we should adopt by many sources (mostly American ironically). This has single handedly lead to America not spreading the ideals and language (English) of America. This is not to indoctrinate other cultures and conform them to our way of life, albeit a better standard of living. Mostly, it is to open the whole 90 + generations worth of knowledge up to other countries. For example, research a bit on India and China and how they compare to each other.

[E30Kaiser]

oh jeesus.. some of you are so short-sighted. Since there's no oil in Afganistan I guess that means all of this has NOTHING to do with oil. I'm sure that those people just woke up one day and decided to hate us purely over religious reasons because our demoratic capitalist lifestyle is just so awesome that it can send people into a fanatical rage. Oh wait I know, it must be because there's so many christians over here! Yeah that'll motivate a family into a multigenerational geurilla warfare lifestyle.

Must be nice to live in such an ignorant bliss.

Hey while we're in the business of making enemies, maybe we should help the Mexican druglords overthrow the Mexican government. It'll be all right, the next president will just kiss some ass to smooth things over when they get powerful enough.

Can you make a good argument for why this is about oil? There are plenty against such a claim but I am yet to hear a good one for it beyond circumstance.

[Ryan Stewart]

oh jeesus.. some of you are so short-sighted. Since there's no oil in Afganistan I guess that means all of this has NOTHING to do with oil. I'm sure that those people just woke up one day and decided to hate us purely over religious reasons because our demoratic capitalist lifestyle is just so awesome that it can send people into a fanatical rage. Oh wait I know, it must be because there's so many christians over here! Yeah that'll motivate a family into a multigenerational geurilla warfare lifestyle.

Must be nice to live in such an ignorant bliss.

Hey while we're in the business of making enemies, maybe we should help the Mexican druglords overthrow the Mexican government. It'll be all right, the next president will just kiss some ass to smooth things over when they get powerful enough.

The sheer stupidity and (ironically) short-sightedness is strong in this thread.

There are thousands of reasons they hate us (apparently you havent looked very closely because the terrorists even state on their website why they hate us) and none of them have anything to do with oil.

[joshh]

The oil was a bonus not the cause.
3000 Americans losing their lives was the cause. And the fact that Islamic (yeah I fucking said it!!) terrorism was brought to the states.

[Wiglaf]

So you're telling me that if we didn't go over there and help Iran put boot to throat to all of their neighboring countries that 9/11 still would have happened?
And if this is really what it's about, then explain WTF we were doing in Iraq instead of going straight to Afghanistan.

I agree that there are quite a few pieces to the puzzle missing, and I'm not going to claim to know more than you guys about it, but I just don't buy the story we've been told. It does NOT add up. The freaking 9/11 conspiracy theory has better supporting evidence.