our schools suck because of THE LIBERAL AGENDA

[KenC]

Starting highschool teachers in Oregon make under $35k a year. I don't know of any job which requires a graduate degree that pays less.

If you want professionals, pay professional wages.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
when my mom started in Tucson in 97 her 1st 3 years salary was 19k a year. She was veteran teacher with a master and years of experience (she when back to it when my bro was in the 5th grade) and moved to AZ in 97 to be near her parents. Now 13 years latter she has not broken 45k and the district is hiring NEW fresh grads now at close to 30K


Pureaudio:
I wont try to tell you that there are bad teachers out there. Because there most certainly is. But has much more to do with the kids these days and the lack of parenting. The public schools now are little more than "free" care for the little juvenile delinquents.

Then when it comes time for the P-T conference many of the parents bring in the family lawyers to contest anything negative the little shit did, or why his B is not an A. Thus intimidate the teachers with threats of legal action. The little shits dont do their work and the parents dont help matters.

Teaching the kids is primarily the job of the parents, now its all being dumped on the public school teachers, to teach them manners, life skills and the academics. Oh and administrations can make a teacher look bad by giving that teacher all/many of the problem kids time and time again, thus your performance based compensation is not the best way around this. The test scores are meaning less, if you dont have the parents support and help.

You cant just dump this on the teachers, you have to dump it squarely back into the lap of our society, and this idea that more govt is good and basically thinking that its the job of the school to raise the kids. The fed are not supposed to have anything to do with the education of our kids, its supposed ot be handled at the state and local level and was done so, rather well I might add till Carter and the waffleswaffleswaffles in 79 got the federal govt involved in educating the kids. Since when has anything the gets involved with gone well??? Hell of a way to shape the thinking of a generation and a country huh.

[e30e]

Starting highschool teachers in Oregon make under $35k a year. I don't know of any job which requires a graduate degree that pays less.

If you want professionals, pay professional wages.

FUCKING EXACTLY, I have a specialized Educational Degree and starting salary 38k and then through all the incentives and extra/intra curricular stuff your looking at maybe 43k. Mind you teachers baby sit for 8 hours little shits that don't get parented at all and then spend 2 -4 hours of prepping for the next day; 12 hour days equal 43k to watch kids and then get blamed for there behavior?????

Don't even get me started in the notion "teachers only work for 6-7 months" which is complete bullshit, every state requires extra schooling every year, service, and political agenda/correctness training when teachers are not in the classroom. All of this of course costs the teachers money.

Schools don't supply anything for teachers anymore, so that's an out of pocket expense on them. You only get a 1k tax break for that; my budget for school supplies the school wouldn't cover was over $1,500 in just paper, glue, markers ect.

You have fucking politicians who know nothing about education making education decisions and laying off good teachers in favor of cheaper teachers and making classrooms bigger. They lay off the teachers who teach art, P.E. and career and technical education; the three subjects a well rounded healthy person needs to become a productive intelligent citizen. Teachers should not be teaching kids to pass a test, they need to teaching them problem solving and how to think on there own; hence the need for more career and technical training and less push for this bullshit kids only need math and science. How are they going to use math and science when they don't know how to apply there knowledge?

So, am I teacher? Nope couldn't find work and didn't want to be part of a failing system. I'll volunteer coach or help a shop teacher out in my free time to get my knowledge out.



End Rant.

Cliffs: Teachers are getting dicked by everyone and politicians and parents are to be blamed.

[chadthestampede]

Starting highschool teachers in Oregon make under $35k a year. I don't know of any job which requires a graduate degree that pays less.

If you want professionals, pay professional wages.

Holy shit this.

I'll be a teacher in a years time, and my girlfriend who went through 4 (read 4) years of college to get her bachelor's is making more starting out as a nurse (~60k) than I will make for probably 7-10 years. Maybe longer.

The entire system needs to be overhauled, to be honest. The tenure system is a joke, many entirely incompetent teachers making unholy sums of money are invincible and couldn't care less about the students. Meanwhile, young teachers are struggling in a system that not only underpays you but leaves you powerless in the hands of the state, the administrators, and the parents.

All the while they are telling us in grad school that the kids can't be touched and can't be disciplined; it's getting to the point where they can't be wrong. Failure is being rewarded continuously at the student level, so it's no surprise that teachers become inept as well.

[Wiglaf]

UMMM I missed this one.
full boat of white guilt.

in respect to american indians, it is deserved. as far as the other stuff with slavery, I do remember them pushing the issue a bit much. I remember having the opinion "yeah i wasn't racist until i took this fucking class". If it's about that shit being laid on a bit thick then i can see what you're talking about, but that is hardly what i call destroying the education system. That's just overcompensating for some areas south of town where no matter how thick they lay it on it won't get through.. just making eyeballs roll around more furiously.

the other comment about paygrades seems much more appropriate, but also totally irrelevant to liberal vs. conservative.

[mrsleeve]

you still have not answered my original 3 questions that you started this thread with

obviously you didnt do to well on the Constitution test

[e30e]

Its not neccessarily a liberal or conservative national issue because schools are largely dicated by states, but most state education boards are lead by heavy leaning liberal or conservative belief systems.

Schools funding is largely a state issue, but national standards are completely stupid and borderline racist in terms of how the wording of national tests. I'm a white guy but facts are facts, test written by New York and New Jersey companies (not the government the lobbyist get the jobs for private companies) are not designed to be read by Hispanics or southern blacks, hence why hispanics and black usually have a 15-25% lower test scores and it really comes down to the wording of Northeastern English.

Accountability of districts, administrators, politicians, and parents are to blame.Yes there's some bad apple teachers but its like any profession.

[Naplm00]

"those who can’t do teach"


This is why you get paid 37k starting a year to teach. Because you are essentially a liberal arts major with a teaching cert.

Get a masters or a doctorate then you can start making over $50k, but in all reality does someone with a masters need to be teaching ABCs? I dont think so.

[e30e]

"those who can’t do teach"


This is why you get paid 37k starting a year to teach. Because you are essentially a liberal arts major with a teaching cert.

Get a masters or a doctorate then you can start making over $50k, but in all reality does someone with a masters need to be teaching ABCs? I dont think so.

Wow you are about as fucking ignorant as it comes, be a substitute teacher for a day and tell me its easy and you don't know shit. Since your probably a lazy fuck with a comment like that and wouldn't go substitute, look up the teaching requirements for your state and tell me its an easy achievement to get a teaching cert.

[joshh]

Bitching about pay didn't really start till our kids education started to tank.
How about teachers bust ass, show how good of a job they can do then demand a pay raise...OH WAIT they're part of a UNION telling them they are super fucking special people and that their jobs only matter if they get paid enough.

Fuck you, production comes first! That's exactly what's wrong with this country. Do you really think that if we paid our teachers more that our kids education would get any better. NOPE! Because teaching is a pride and care issue not so much a pay issue.


The second problem is that every time the crooked politicians in Oregon want to pass some other special bill they always go straight to threatening our school money. Liberals are stupid they way and vote for what the politicians want because of it.

[e30e]

Bitching about pay didn't really start till our kids education started to tank.
How about teachers bust ass, show how good of a job they can do then demand a pay raise...OH WAIT they're part of a UNION telling them they are super fucking special people and that their jobs only matter if they get paid enough.

Fuck you, production comes first! That's exactly what's wrong with this country.


The second problem is that every time the crooked politicians in Oregon want to pass some other special bill they always go straight to threatening our school money. Liberals are stupid they way and vote for what the politicians want because of it.

Your right its the unions fault :roll: , if the unions were so "good (evil in your mind)" then why are teachers being laid off left and right?

Oh and how exactly do you measure production in education, because standardized testing has failed this country.

[joshh]

Your right its the unions fault :roll: , if the unions were so "good (evil in your mind)" then why are teachers being laid off left and right?

Oh and how exactly do you measure production in education, because standardized testing has failed this country.

You're god damned right it's partly the Unions fault.The Union isn't there to protect teachers. It's there to make money and pat teachers on the back and tell tell them they're god's special people and that even if they were paid a million dollars a year it wouldn't be enough.
Pull up your fucking britches and be happy you have a fucking job at all. Now do your job. And this only goes for those teachers bitching about how they should be much better paid and their job quality suffers because of it.

Do you believe our children would be better educated if teachers were paid more?


Yeah great fucking point, let's just give up all together. Whad ya say!!??

[e30e]

You're god damned right it's partly the Unions fault.The Union isn't there to protect teachers. It's there to make money and pat teachers on the back and tell tell them they're god's special people and that even if they were paid a million dollars a year it wouldn't be enough.
Pull up your fucking britches and be happy you have a fucking job at all. Now do your job. And this only goes for those teachers bitching about how they should be much better paid and their job quality suffers because of it.

Do you believe our children would be better educated if teachers were paid more?


Yeah great fucking point, let's just give up all together. Whad ya say!!??

Hell yes they would get a better education, I would be teaching.

The union argument might work in your state, I know it does in NJ but you gotta realize that a lot teacher unions are powerless and basically a drinking club in a lot of western states.

Instead I gladly sell Nissans and make more in half a year than I would if I had a masters degree and teaching for 10 years.

[joshh]

Hell yes they would get a better education, I would be teaching.

The union argument might work in your state, I know it does in NJ but you gotta realize that a lot teacher unions are powerless and basically a drinking club in a lot of western states.

Instead I gladly sell Nissans and make more in half a year than I would if I had a masters degree and teaching for 10 years.

LOL, of course you think so, you're a fucking teacher....BWHAHAHAHAHA...

Do you also think if you pay your mechanic twice as much that your going to get any better work from him?
The correct answer is no, because a good mechanic can't give you better quality IF HE'S DOING HIS JOB RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[mrsleeve]

LOL, of course you think so, you're a fucking teacher....BWHAHAHAHAHA...

Do you also think if you pay your mechanic twice as much that your going to get any better work from him?
The correct answer is no, because a good mechanic can't give you better quality IF HE'S DOING HIS JOB RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Right but if you pay them like shit, you wont get good work outta them to begin with,


When it comes to employees much like products you buy at the store. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

No its not nearly as much the unions as its the Upper management of the school districts