The EPA to take Texas refineries offline.

[mrsleeve]

Oh for fucks sake here we go again.

Ever consider that if the oil companies didn't demonstrate such a willingness to fuck over the environment and endanger the livelihoods of millions of people with the sloppy profit-first-safety-second "it won't happen to US" corporate ethos, then maybe the feds wouldn't feel the need to super-nanny them to death? Imagine the oil companies going before congress with a century of well managed operations that showed respect for the communities surrounding their operations. They would have a good case for being left to their own regulation. That didn't happen though, and now Americans are screaming "how could you let this happen! Do something!"

There are about 30 REFINERIES in TX out of that 10 are in the top 20 largest producers of refined product per day in the nation,. When you add in the rest that are in TX you have a nick over 33% of daily US refined products production capability. This has nothing to with the supper nannying them nor dose it have to do with keeping the environment clean or preventing a accident. It has to do with the govt doing everything it possibly can to cause the price of energy in this country to become as expensive as it can be. They know they dont have the votes for Cap and trade aka The American power act so they are now trying to shorten the refined products by any means necessary.

Why are they trying to punish an entire industry, for the fuck up of 1 company (which only has 1 refinery in TX by the way)???? They have all ready regulated all the small drilling and exploration companies outta the gulf now that there has been some new regs passed, that leaves the gulf to only large multinatiols like BP to produce the resource from there.

DO SOMETHING, are you fucking insane???? The feds did not have anything on hand and ready to go as they are required to by the oil pollution act and the NCP. Or how they have kept foreign skimmers and clean up help outta the entire thing one of which is a fucking shit that can scrub 500,000 barrels a day. So yeah the feds have been doing something to make be counter productive and delay everything they can with regulation by the EPA.

It's clear that guys on that rig were blowing the whistle for a while, but somewhere, some middle manager said "screw it-keep going". Then the explosion occurred and BP fervently hoped they could quickly get things under control and lied about the amounts of oil leaking. Rush even said it was no big deal-the oil was as natural as seawater! True, but so are rattle snakes. Doesn't mean I want to share my house with them. But it's hard to hide blackened beaches and dead animals, so they owned up.

Yup and if the bean counters over rode the engineers and safety practices then nail BP to the wall, I have said that since day one!!!! But you dont want to cripple them to the point where they cant make any money and clean shit up and fix the issue, now do you. If you force the company into receivership or bankruptcy EVERYONE LOSES ESPECIALLY THOSE ON GULF COAST, I have never said this is not a bad deal and it sucks

And now we have a whole shit pot full of people whose lives have been irrevocably changed for the worse, and when you see the fucking gymnastics exercises BP wants to put the affected people through before they shell out any dough, well......fuck 'em.

Yup your right there are lots of peoples lively hood that is being effected here, but you think its gymnastics to request Proof of income from last year????? Or show proof that you even live in the region, and your lively hood has been affected??? With out those provisions whats to stop people from CA or MI or NY form filling claims ????? I mean really thanks to this My lively hood has been affected since I work in the energy sector all my work keeps getting pushed back cuz the feds are dragging their feet with permits. I am supposed to be out working 12-16 hours a day this time of year, and I am NOT. DO I get a chuck of BP cash too???

Maybe very expensive oil prices would make importing vast amounts of disposable shit from China unprofitable and we might actually go back to making a few things here on a smaller, more local basis to avoid high transportation costs. Maybe we would consider not choosing to live 50 miles from our jobs. Maybe we would be a better, stronger, fitter country if our kids walked or rode bikes to school instead of being driven a mile or two in a 4000lb vehicle. Maybe America would be better off in the end for it.

No NO NO Your NOT GETTING IT, Oil PRICES WILL NOT GO UP THEY WILL FALL, BUT REFINED PRODUCTS LIKE GAS, DIESEL, HEATING OIL, etc.. WILL FUCKING SKY ROCKET here in the USA ALONE virtually no where else Because if we lose 1/3 of or capacity to make that shit it will shorten the supply and the laws of supply an demand will take over. If we are not using about 7 million barrels of cured a day (cuz the feds say you cant make gas) that will cause a glut in world wide production and the price of crude will fall thanks to supply and demand again, and China will soak up that supply. Thus making it cheaper to manufacture and ship more junk products all over the world. By doing this with the economy like it is right now will be the straw that breaks the camels back and will plunge us over a cliff. With fuel prices going through the roof, you will see lots of companies have to lay off or shut down because they cant afford or even get fuel to do what they need to do, delivery of goods will slow and get very very expensive to pay for all the fuel. Get it yet ???????????????????

This is pure political agenda and if you cant see through that than you are truly hope less.

the economic impact? in my opinion would be cheaper in the long run to just spend a one-time shot to get the refineries running clean than a yearly host of bribes and special deals.
It's not like we're talking about cap and trade here.
This is no different than with power plants, they kick up a huge storm to avoid buying an air scrubber but in the scope of things it's a drop in the bucket. Especially with oil, the whole damn refinery has a return of investment less than 5 years.
You guys complaining about the feds not cracking down on their own laws, this shit has been going on for 16 years. If they went through the books and hit everyone, the impact would be HUGE.

HEY THEY ARE RUNNING FINE, the feds just dont like the way TX is doing it. Yes cutting govt complications and bureaucracy, by issuing 1 permit for a refinery rather than MANY, gives this admin an excuse. For fucks sake you cant blame it on Bush that the epa has not tried to enforce this, this was going on under slick willy for 6 years. This administration time and time again is showing its colors. Yes your right 0 is not the entire govt, but he has appointed key individuals with key beliefs that line up with the admin's agenda to posts that are messing with the energy sector and furthering the economic damage as much as they can and this is no different.

I will explain 1 more time see if you can follow a long this time. TX has come up with a numbers for the total amount of emissions that refiner of a given size can emit, and issued 1 permit for the whole place in its entirety.

The feds want each point of emissions with in that facility to have an individual permit. That adds expense RED TAPE and more govt. TX has steam lined the process and the govt has problems with that.

This fact and the "never waste a crisis thing" (you know the gulf) has given the feds the EPA and the 0 admin an opportunity to fuck with the energy sector as much as it can, and alternative method to accomplish its agenda since the votes for cap and tax are no there.

Just another instance of the over bearing federal govt using the EPA as a weapon

[Kershaw]

how does europe function on gas thats $8/gal?

[mrsleeve]

You are aware that the GAS in europe is about the same price as it is here. Its just the 5 bucks in taxes added to each gallon by the governments of eurrope that make it that expensive right??????

UM also Europe as a society is not a spread out as America is, they have a much better public transportation and much much smaller rural demographic than here in the states. In many places in europe you live your whole life with out a car, while it can be done here as well its by no means as easy.

[Maluco]

don't mess with Texas...

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hope your right and TX gives the feds the finger on this

[Maluco]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hope your right and TX gives the feds the finger on this

just look at what we are talking about... the finger(s) shall be given ;)

Texas will not stand for the federal bullshit...

[ck_taft325is]

If G.W.B blew up the WTC then Obama totally rigged that oil platform to blow.

Just sayin'.

[Maluco]

if g.w.b blew up the wtc then obama totally rigged that oil platform to blow.

Just sayin'.

gtfo

[mar1t1me]

If G.W.B blew up the WTC then Obama totally rigged that oil platform to blow.

Just sayin'.

At least he isn't blaming the platform explosion on one party he claims he knows did it, then attacking a country that he thinks might have had something to do with it, then attack another country he knows had nothing to do with it, all the while "spreading democracy". LOL

Just sayin'.

[mar1t1me]

Oh for fucks sake here we go again.

Yeah yeah yeah.....

I guess it's gotta feel pretty good to be right all the time....

Let me know when the oil companies get weaned off the federal subsidy tit.

Basically, the oil companies treat taxpayers like uncompensated investors. Record profits and still sucking up taxpayer money? I don't feel sorry for them. You and I will pay for the brunt of the BP cleanup and won't even be afforded the courtesy of a god-damned reach-around.

[Wiglaf]

well if anyone can put together a pile of circumstantial evidence as to why they think it's foul play, I'd like to see it. With the whole 9/11 we had everything from freshly redone insurance plans to missing evidence to suspect that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes than we were told. With this rig, well it "almost blew up" a few times just recently before it actually did. It seems a lot more likely than a korean sub or whatever that this really was an accident.

[mrsleeve]

Let me know when the oil companies get weaned off the federal subsidy tit.

Basically, the oil companies treat taxpayers like uncompensated investors. Record profits and still sucking up taxpayer money? I don't feel sorry for them. You and I will pay for the brunt of the BP cleanup and won't even be afforded the courtesy of a god-damned reach-around.

UHT-OOOO some one has been reading blogs again and dose not really get what hes talking about again.

Subsidy there is no real Subsidies involved. 1st lets look at who really makes money on the oil industry. When a well is drilled in federal jurisdiction (off shore federal land) they get better lease rate and royalties than most private lease holders.

* When ever barrel of oil comes outta the ground or is imported it gets a severance tax on it that goes to the feds
* When it is shipped to a refiner it travels though a pipeline, well there is tons of property taxes on that pipe line as well as some federal crap that is paid based on shipments
* The refiners have to pay for permits and pay a tax on all the product incoming and out going
* makes it to the distribution point and is loaded on a truck, goes to the point of final sale.
* There is sales tax the station pays when they buy the product and a 2 cent per gallon tax to the feds when it goes into the gas stations storage tanks
* When it comes back out into your tank you are 18.4 cents for gas and 24.9 cents for diesel + your local state rate and then sales tax on top of those taxes (You are paying tax, ON TAXES)

So that gallon of fuel has been taxed no less than 8 times by the time you get it. Who do you think pays for all that taxation ??????

Then you get to the Evil big oil companies, They pay 43% at the end of the year on profits. Yes they get some deductions and some grants from the govt to sequester C02 in old wells. On the whole oil only makes a 4-8% profit on its refined products, the industry gets to write off much of investments and deprecation costs just like any other business.

You tell me who is making all that money on OIL, and whos taking it the ass to feed the govt because they have to get their fingers in it and tax the fuck outta it at every stage in the process to getting fuel into our cars so we call all go to work and and pay our taxes.

Here I will help you figure it out. in the last 25 years the industry has directly remitted 2.2 trillion dollars to the govt including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three fucking times their net profits during the same period, Oh and thats according to the latest stats from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.

[mar1t1me]

Hmmmmm. Anyone discover a shorting of BP stock before the explosion? Anyone suddenly make plans to be off the rig on the day of the explosion? There is plenty of evidence that certain individuals were party to the fact something was going to happen on 9/11. Any evidence here? I haven't heard any......

There were tests performed earlier that showed explosive gas was leaking from the well head.

.....when Halliburton showed BP, PLC and Transocean officials the results of the pressure tests that suggested gas was leaking, the rig workers were put on "standby." BP is the rig operator and leaseholder.

Buzbee said one of his clients told him the "Transocean and BP company people got their heads together," and 40 minutes later gave the green light.

The attorney said the Halliburton crew members were not shown any new test results.

"They said they did their own tests, and they came out OK," he said. "But with the phantom test that Transocean and BP allegedly did, there was no real record or real-time recordation of that test."

Buzbee suggested that BP and Transocean had monetary reasons for ignoring the earlier tests.

But it must be O's fault somehow!

[mar1t1me]

UHT-OOOO some one has been reading blogs again and dose not really get what hes talking about again.

How can you stand being so right all the time?

Here I will help you figure it out. in the last 25 years the industry has directly remitted 2.2 trillion dollars to the govt including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three fucking times their net profits during the same period, Oh and thats according to the latest stats from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.

So, the NET profit is what's left after everything has been paid, yes? So you're telling me that they were paying an average of $88 billion per year to the govt? They could pay that and still show, in numerous quarters "record PROFITS", not earnings, but profits? Pardon me if don't shed a tear for those poor ol' oil execs.

Oh and 43% tax rate? On paper maybe. Effective tax rate after all the breaks and deductions is more like 11% which is still 7 points lower than all other forms of energy.

[mrsleeve]

How can you stand being so right all the time?

Its tough but I manage, I am only trying to help

So, the NET profit is what's left after everything has been paid, yes? So you're telling me that they were paying an average of $88 billion per year to the govt? They could pay that and still show, in numerous quarters "record PROFITS", not earnings, but profits? Pardon me if don't shed a tear for those poor ol' oil execs.

Yes you have that right. Yes they have recorded record profits, when oil prices were 150 a barrel because their primary cost went up 200% in 6 years and there for the 4-8% profits were on a bigger number that = more profit. Also with modernization and new more efficient technology (that has under gone billions of R&D by the industry) has given them a better bottom line.

Disparaging a industry or company for making a profit is well a little ummmm Marxist is it not???? The sell billions of gallons of final product, they make their money on volume. Also they pour billions of dollars or that profit back into the system, to find more oil, to get a little more use outta each barrel of oil. And TO YOU. You have any kind of 401k or pension program??? You own oil stocks then, every good investment fund holds some big oil. We all benefit when they make money. My investments have weathered the down turn rather well thanks to where I have put my money. Have not made much but have not lost any either.

Oh and 43% tax rate? On paper maybe. Effective tax rate after all the breaks and deductions is more like 11% which is still 7 points lower than all other forms of energy.

Still not getting it. As I have shown their marginal tax rates are much higher than 43% with all the property taxes, severance taxes, transport taxes, leases and royalties, and everything else. If the industry has remitted more than 3 times the amount of money to the govt than they have made in NET profits (you know after taxes) then the marginal tax rate is over 75% now isn't it.

That 43% is only the wind fall profits taxes at the end of the year they have to pay as well. So if you company earns 10b in gross profits after all the bills and other taxes are paid then you have to send a check to the federal govt (that did nothing to help you acquire that profit, and did everything it could to stand in your way) a check of 4.3billion. so that leaves you with 6.7 to reinvest into the company and pay dividends to your investors and expand your business.

When will you get the govt is maker of nothing and taker from those that create wealth in order to give to those that dont.

I think at some point you have made enough money - BHO