So who here still thinks the Stimulus was a good idea because you're stupid

[BraveUlysses]

please enlighten me, seriously
tax revenues went up, not down, after the bush tax cuts

Are you claiming they went up due to the tax cuts alone?

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
YES Tax cuts stimulate the economy. You as a business owner, dont have to write as big a check to the govt and are not penalized for making money or too much money. You have more incentive to go out and make more money if the govt is not going to take so much away from you that it becomes counter productive to make money. You can hire new employees to help you make that money, and then they have to pay taxes on what they earn. You have more people working paying taxes, more business flourishing paying more taxes. All be it at lower percentage, the total intake of taxes actually works out to be more than confiscation 1/2 or more of what some one else works very very hard to earn.

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. - Thomas Jefferson


When business know what to expect,and can plan for the future and see it as fairly stable then you are willing to spend money and take risks with capital to make good returns. in the environment we have now, that is not possible, we are making all the same mistakes of the FDR to turn the depression into the Great depression, and look whos steering the ship and passing huge entitlement packages too boot.

The deficit went up because we started spending more than we were taking in, IN SPITE of, tax revenues going up.


Is critical thinking something not taught in school these days?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah, No its not part of the agenda, by fostering common sense, its counter productive to what those in power want to accomplish

[gwb72tii]

Are you claiming they went up due to the tax cuts alone?

listen, if you seriously look into periods when tax rates were cut, and what happened to the economy, joblessness, tax revenues, and average hourly earnings, you can answer your own question

but you need to take off your partisan hat to do so

keynesian economics has never, and i mean NEVER worked to stimulate anything except unemploment. it just does not work, and there is ample evidence through US history (FDR, LBJ, Carter and the first term of clinton, and now the messiah) that it wreaks havoc on the economy. it slows growth, raises unemployment, lowers wages, and results in lower tax revenues collected.

and i'm no republican

here are two examples
#1 reagan - when he was elected the top tax rate was 70 fucking percent.
the economy was stagnant and inflation was high. the top rate was cut to 28% and tax revenues DOUBLED in 8 years
#2 - japan during the 80's and 90's. no growth, zero interest rates, massive government spending. a stagnant 20yrs where their stock market went down over 50%.

and the above is why i, at least, believe the messiah knows EXACTLY what he's doing. high unemployment means more relying on the tit of government for their sustenance. he wants more and more people to be dependent on democrats handing out table scraps.
the man is bright, intelligent, and had a communist father, grandfather and mom.

teh fucking federal government is bleeding us, you and me, and its time it stopped
its not a democrat vs republican thing, there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides
its a spending issue

[z31maniac]

You can also throw in the tax cut of the 20s (Coolidge? can't think of who it is off the top of my head) and the tax cuts of JFK.

The economy is on its knees right now and the fact that they are even CONSIDERING letting the tax cuts expire while also raising the "Healthcare" taxes, shows that those in charge are either:

A. Completely fucking stupid and naive when it comes to economics and how things work.
B. Are literally trying to undermine the foundation of this country.

[th3blue]

look, the bush tax cuts took place a while ago now, so you show me... where are all these jobs? (a decade should be long enough for it to have started). Is your logic that maybe it just needs another year or two to begin?

Hundreds of billions of tax dollars per year are not being claimed because of the bush taxs cuts at a time when we can't afford it. Yes we do need to cut spending, but we also need to cut the bush tax cuts because they didn't work. If you give a person who's not living paycheck to paycheck a tax cut in a recession they will sit on it and not spend it until the economy improves. If you give a tax cut to a middle class person who's living paycheck to paycheck they'll spend it because they have no choice. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

and please, stop asking me to explain what I have already explained via chart and link backing it up. However, you're welcome to dispute the source of my argument.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Really you are fucking serious about this shit aren't you

[gwb72tii]

here, follow this link

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

this is raw data, no analysis
look at receipts, then look at outlays

and tell me what the problem is

[reelop19]

^^^^ OK dude you can't honestly believe that duschebag is going to look at that link? Even if he did he won't understand it because his logic will not allow it. The problem with people like him is their immaturity in rationalities. I think its a great link but of course I'm actually able to understand how simple economics really is...you know because history easily shows what works and doesn't work

[Wiglaf]

what does that even mean? that 47-49 were the only years we've taken in more money than we spent? Still trying to pin this whole mess on Democrats?

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No Look at years where the tax brackets were high, then look to the years following a tax cut, you see a noticable incrase in income

but the biggest issue is that MORE IS SPENT THAN TAKEN IN IN EVERY YEAR THATS WHY TO REALLY MAKE A SHIT YOU HAVE TO DO BOTH CUT TAXES AND REIN IN SPENDING TO WITH IN THOSE LEVELS.

[BraveUlysses]

This just in (apparently), correlation does equal causation

[reelop19]

Doesn't that link prove the opposite? I think you're using your words improperly

[mrsleeve]

This just in (apparently), correlation does equal causation

If it was a one time occurrence then yeah maybe you could say this. But it has worked every fucking time.

What you are implying is like draining all the oil outta your car, then driving it and saying that friction caused it to blow up, not the lack of oil.

Or getting shot is not what causes, that gaping bullet wound.


How tough is it for you to get that a taxation system that punishes success is not good for anyone!!!!!! When if you make 1 penny over XX,XXX.xx or XXX,XXX.xx your percentage of tax burden at the federal level goes from 25 to 30% that can be an extra 5K a year you have to pay for making 1 penny too much. Or go from 33-50% for earning that one penny.

You see what that does is causes people to stifle their production to NOT EARN THAT MUCH TO KEEP FROM PAYING TAXES. When everyone starts to do this (as it becomes counter productive to make any more as it all goes to the govts) the economy slows. You know if you work lots of hours to get more done in a work week. Well if the govt is going to take the bulk of the rewards for all that time in the form of taxes, Then you are going to say fuck at and go home after 8 and only work your 40 hours, and spend that time doing what you want to, and or spend that time with you family rather than making money to support them.

I can speak for making a little too much. I made $25.36 a couple of years ago TOO MUCH, kicked me up into the next tax bracket and had to write a extra 4,300 worth in checks to govts because of it. If I had known how close I was I would have taken the lay off, the week prior than when I did. Or I would not have billed the customer as many hours, there by cutting what I make, my helper made, and what my boss made and thats not fair to them, as I am there to make them money too and as much as possible other wise I would not be a good employee. Just to save being penalized for earning a little too much money.

You either live in the bottom 50% and dont pay any federal taxes, or are just a kid and dont have a real job or have a family to take care of, and see all that money removed form your pay check before you even get it. High taxes are punitive to all period because even if you arent in those upper tax brackets YOUR BOSSES ARE and they will be looking to cut their liability any way they can. If they have to pay 50K plus, more in federal taxes this year over last while earning the same or less profits, guess what thats a employee or 2 that will get laid off, so the wages can be put to taxes. Less jobs = less people working = less payroll taxes paid blah blah blah

GET IT YET

[BraveUlysses]

How tough is it for you to get that a taxation system that punishes success is not good for anyone!!!!!! When if you make 1 penny over XX,XXX.xx or XXX,XXX.xx your percentage of tax burden at the federal level goes from 25 to 30% that can be an extra 5K a year you have to pay for making 1 penny too much. Or go from 33-50% for earning that one penny.
[...]
I can speak for making a little too much. I made $25.36 a couple of years ago TOO MUCH, kicked me up into the next tax bracket and had to write a extra 4,300 worth in checks to govts because of it. If I had known how close I was I would have taken the lay off, the week prior than when I did. Or I would not have billed the customer as many hours, there by cutting what I make, my helper made, and what my boss made and thats not fair to them, as I am there to make them money too and as much as possible other wise I would not be a good employee. Just to save being penalized for earning a little too much money.

This is proof you have no goddamned idea what you are talking about. That's not how tax brackets work.

You either live in the bottom 50% and dont pay any federal taxes, or are just a kid and dont have a real job or have a family to take care of, and see all that money removed form your pay check before you even get it. High taxes are punitive to all period because even if you arent in those upper tax brackets YOUR BOSSES ARE and they will be looking to cut their liability any way they can. If they have to pay 50K plus, more in federal taxes this year over last while earning the same or less profits, guess what thats a employee or 2 that will get laid off, so the wages can be put to taxes. Less jobs = less people working = less payroll taxes paid blah blah blah

GET IT YET

I work 7 days a week at my job, you couldn't be more wrong about all those lovely assumptions.

[joshh]

This is proof you have no goddamned idea what you are talking about. That's not how tax brackets work.



I work 7 days a week at my job, you couldn't be more wrong about all those lovely assumptions.

Well you just put your foot in your mouth because they do work that way. Might want to know what you're talking about before entering your foot in your mouth next time.

A friend of mine had the same exact situation and asked to have his old pay (LESS) so he wasn't taxed as much.