Prop 8

[Cabriolet]

ugly chicks like meg griffin have no hope now

[BraveUlysses]

gays got their title while all of our freedoms have eroded.

What? you'll have to explain your reasoning on this

[Dj Buttchug]

Lol @ this thread. Team Joshh FTW

[Cabriolet]

What? you'll have to explain your reasoning on this

- murica!

[Dozyproductions]

Im glad for this but when good 'news' becomes so popular it always makes me wonder what are they sweeping under the rug that we shouldn't notice? Aka: We won for gay rights! NSA 'scandal' isn't a big deal anymore!

I thought you were a smart guy, what I said earlier was pretty straight forward if you haven't been living under a rock. Which I know you haven't.

[IronFreak]

The fact that gay marriage is now recognized isn't the biggest issue. What happened yesterday is just an underlying example of them stripping our freedoms and sugarcoating it. The "people" voted for something, the government overturned it. Whether you're for gay marriage or not, both sides got cheated. One side was stripped of the victory, the other side won in an unfair manner.

[BraveUlysses]

The fact that gay marriage is now recognized isn't the biggest issue. What happened yesterday is just an underlying example of them stripping our freedoms and sugarcoating it. The "people" voted for something, the government overturned it. Whether you're for gay marriage or not, both sides got cheated. One side was stripped of the victory, the other side won in an unfair manner.

Is it okay to deny people rights simply because a majority has voted to explicitly deny them a right? Derp. There is no freedom to deny people rights via voting initiatives.

Im glad for this but when good 'news' becomes so popular it always makes me wonder what are they sweeping under the rug that we shouldn't notice? Aka: We won for gay rights! NSA 'scandal' isn't a big deal anymore!

I thought you were a smart guy, what I said earlier was pretty straight forward if you haven't been living under a rock. Which I know you haven't.

It's not straightforward when you're tying it into a completely unrelated subject. FWIW I'm very opposed to the NSA spying programs.

[Dozyproductions]

Seems like legal boundaries should and can be expanded, and do so greatly more, without forcing others to do the same if they choose a stricter/narrower lifestyle. Thats the beauty of that line of reasoning. Marriage isn't stripped of its merit and neither is the people's choice, if the choice was made in fear---> hate. A more libertarian approach should be regarded. That's freedom.

[Dozyproductions]

It's not straightforward when you're tying it into a completely unrelated subject. FWIW I'm very opposed to the NSA spying programs.

I get you. But everything in the public sphere of consciousness is never unrelated.

[IronFreak]

You missed my point entirely. change prop 8 to anything else, abortion, death penalty, GMO's whatever. Isn't part of freedom allowing the masses to choose? So a bill was put into place, we decided based on votes what we wanted, and the government overruled. That's not a Democracy, and that's not freedom.

[Cabriolet]

You missed my point entirely. change prop 8 to anything else, abortion, death penalty, GMO's whatever. Isn't part of freedom allowing the masses to choose? So a bill was put into place, we decided based on votes what we wanted, and the government overruled. That's not a Democracy, and that's not freedom.

ya do i have to agree with you a lot here. i thought if people wanted it over turned there should have been a vote.

[IronFreak]

ya do i have to agree with you a lot here. i thought if people wanted it over turned there should have been a vote.

Exactly, I don't want to get in an argument about whether being gay is wrong or not. You talk about rights, and we shouldn't be able to decided whether or not its up to us. We have to right to vote, that's a given, guess what......they just trampled all over that and chucked it right back in your face.

[Dozyproductions]

That topic is not really for this thread so sorry for picking the scab. Democracy = mob rule. Do you think freedom can come from a highly manipulated mob? We officially live in a constitutional democratic republic. All that means is that influence needs to be aimed more narrowly. The rest is just how well of PR campaign you can spin out. Not saying I have the answer just pointing out the cracks.

So if the mob is in favor for living in and by fear... does everyone else have to live by that too?

[z31maniac]

You missed my point entirely. change prop 8 to anything else, abortion, death penalty, GMO's whatever. Isn't part of freedom allowing the masses to choose? So a bill was put into place, we decided based on votes what we wanted, and the government overruled. That's not a Democracy, and that's not freedom.

Nope, you're the typical dumbass American who doesn't understand the difference between a Democracy and A REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC.

We are a Republic. Which means the desire of the majority does NOT get to trample the rights of the minority.

Go back to high school.

[IronFreak]

I find it really frustrating when trying to have a mature conversation that your feel the need to come in a personally attack me and what I think. It's pretty hypocritical that you chose that route to explain how you can't trample on people rights.

I have the right to be treated with respect.