More Police Excessive Use of Force - Denver

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  • Atreus
    E30 Mastermind
    • Sep 2008
    • 1846

    #1

    More Police Excessive Use of Force - Denver





    And the Denver Safety Manager Is having a blast right now.



    Denver Safety Manager Ron Perea's refusal to fire a police officer in yet another controversial abuse case could seriously undermine a new discipline system it took the city six years to put in place, critics said Friday.
    For the second time in less than three weeks, Perea clashed sharply with Independent Monitor Richard Rosenthal and the Citizen Oversight Board, this time over an officer found to have lied about the use of excessive force.
    Perea, under fire in a separate, highly publicized case in which he issued light discipline in a police beating caught on video, met in a closed-door session with the board and Rosenthal on Friday to defend his decision to give Officer Eric Sellers a suspension of 45 days without pay for "inappropriate force" and "commission of a deceptive act."
    The board unanimously decided to issue a report disagreeing with Perea's discipline of Sellers. The board never publicly criticized the decisions of former Safety Manager Al LaCabe during the seven years he held the post.
    Roxane White, chief of staff to Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper, said late Friday, "Ron is seriously reconsidering his decision."
    In addition to meeting with the Citizen Oversight Board, Perea also met Friday with the city attorney's office to review his discipline of Sellers.
    "The purpose was to meet with him and review the order from a legal perspective, and to analyze his decision under the terms of the new disciplinary matrix and new discipline handbook," said City Attorney David Fine. He added that he believes Perea has the power to reverse his decision in the Sellers case, something city officials expect him to do soon.

    "It's the Wild West"

    The push to fire Sellers was applauded by the man who filed the complaint in the case, Jared Lunn, 23, of Commerce City, a volunteer firefighter in Brighton.
    He said Sellers put him in a choke hold, handcuffed him and treated him to a profanity-laden tirade after he criticized the officer for failing to press charges against someone who punched Lunn and knocked a pizza out of Lunn's hands on a Lower Downtown street on Nov. 23, 2008.
    "Denver police, to me, are basically criminals with badges," Lunn said. "I have no respect for them. I somewhat fear them because it's Wild West out there for them."
    Under a new police discipline system the city began using in October 2008, lying to internal affairs investigators, as Sellers was found to have done about his confrontation with Lunn, is a cause for "presumptive termination."
    Many police departments consider such lying a fireable offense because it calls into question the ability for the officer to be believed when he testifies in court.
    LaCabe spent years crafting a new discipline system to replace one that required officials to use past discipline decisions to determine punishments.
    Under the new system, specific violations lead to specific presumptive punishments. Lying under oath is among the most serious of offenses in the new system. Such lying is included in a category of "egregious misconduct substantially contrary to the standards of conduct reasonably expected of one whose sworn duty is to uphold the law."
    Despite the new discipline system, Perea decided to grant mitigation to Sellers, in part, because he believed it took too long for LaCabe to decide how to punish Sellers. Perea inherited the case when he became safety manager this year and assumed oversight of the city's police, sheriff and fire departments.
    Perea has declined to publicly discuss his discipline of Sellers because Sellers has appealed his decision to a civil service hearing officer.
    Sellers did not return telephone messages seeking comment. In court documents, he has argued that Perea's discipline, which includes a provision that Sellers will be fired if another similar violation occurs, was excessive.
    The Citizen Oversight Board and Rosenthal fear Perea's decision in the case could allow union officials to use the timeliness of discipline decisions as leverage in future appeals.
    "His rationale made no sense to us at all," oversight board member Cathy Reynolds, a former Denver councilwoman, said of the Sellers case. "There are several things we're concerned about, like there just being a slap on the wrist for lying. It's the coverup that gets us."
    The board earlier this week deplored Perea's decision to keep two officers on the force accused of covering up the beating of a man outside a LoDo nightclub, images of which were captured on video. The Police Department on Thursday reopened an internal investigation into that case, saying new witnesses had come forward.

    Time to adjust


    Following a push by Latinos on Thursday for Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper to fire Perea, the mayor at a Friday news conference emphasized police reforms his administration has pushed. He said his administration had overhauled police hiring and training standards. He noted that police cameras installed during his watch amounted to a reform, as did the hiring of Rosenthal.
    "I think Ron Perea is in a new job that he has never done before," the mayor said. "But if you look at his narrative, his life and his resume, I think he has the right experience. But it takes a while to communicate effectively around decisions, and maybe to figure out how to approach that decisionmaking."
    Lunn said that during the early-morning hours, he was celebrating a friend's birthday in the LoDo area. He said he got a pizza from Two Fisted Mario's Pizza along Market Street when a stranger pushed the pizza out of his hands onto the sidewalk and punched Lunn.
    Lunn said that when he saw three police officers pulling up in a squad car, he told them he wanted to press charges against the attacker, who had run off.
    He said Sellers instead told him to go home. Lunn said he got no sympathy when he pointed out that he also wore a uniform as a firefighter. Instead, he recalled, Sellers responded with obscenities.
    Lunn said he walked away, telling the officer over his shoulder, "Way to protect and serve."
    The officer then grabbed him and put him "in a choke hold until I was about to go limp, and then got on top of me and wrenched my hands behind my back and handcuffed them," Lunn said. "I couldn't use my thumbs for a week."
    Lunn said he was so frightened, he responded by repeatedly answering, "Yes, sir. No, sir."
    Lunn said that after the officer released him, one of the other officers told Lunn's friend, Chris Fuchs, 22, "This guy does this all the time. . . . We don't know how he gets away with it." Lunn was never charged with a crime.
    Fuchs, who said he witnessed the incident, confirmed his friend's account.
    "They told him that he just got (expletive)-up by the toughest police officers in Denver," Fuchs said.

    The guidelines


    The policy statement on the cover of the Denver Police Department Discipline Handbook, established in 2008:
    "An effective discipline system is one that is fair, rational, efficient and consistent, reflects the values of the Department, protects the rights of officers and citizens, promotes respect and trust within the Department and with the community and results in a culture of public accountability, individual responsibility and maintenance of the highest standards of professionalism."

    Go Denver.
    Last edited by Danny; 08-21-2010, 05:50 PM.
    1991 325iC - Mauritsblau sumthin metallic blue. DEAD
    1992 525i - Silber sumthin sumthin metallic- Rolling again, needs suspension/wheels/brakes/paint.... Fuck you A4S310R; BEAT YOU.
    1989 325i - Cirrusblau Metallic sumthin sumthin-project - trying to clean up the interior(done), then the body, then a 5spd, then suspension, then..... - [Stolen :| ]
    1991 325iC - Calypsorot Metallic
    1994 540i - Granitsilber

    Originally posted by scabzzzz
    I've had blunts cock in my mouth, but I'm not gay.
  • bmw325csi
    R3V Elite
    • May 2007
    • 4045

    #2
    holy smokes! Attorneys FTW
    harry/harout

    Comment

    • Atreus
      E30 Mastermind
      • Sep 2008
      • 1846

      #3
      yeah dude, i got pulled over last night, and shit like this exactly crossed my mind.

      never know these days, these "public servants" can't be trusted dude, they're not even legally obligated to protect you.
      1991 325iC - Mauritsblau sumthin metallic blue. DEAD
      1992 525i - Silber sumthin sumthin metallic- Rolling again, needs suspension/wheels/brakes/paint.... Fuck you A4S310R; BEAT YOU.
      1989 325i - Cirrusblau Metallic sumthin sumthin-project - trying to clean up the interior(done), then the body, then a 5spd, then suspension, then..... - [Stolen :| ]
      1991 325iC - Calypsorot Metallic
      1994 540i - Granitsilber

      Originally posted by scabzzzz
      I've had blunts cock in my mouth, but I'm not gay.

      Comment

      • dkbmxer002
        E30 Fanatic
        • Nov 2007
        • 1389

        #4
        they definitely shouldn't have used the force they did. but i sure as fuck don't think he was innocent either, he was obviously trying to antagonize the situation.

        Comment

        • Wh33lhop
          R3V OG
          • Feb 2009
          • 11705

          #5
          Originally posted by dkbmxer002
          they definitely shouldn't have used the force they did. but i sure as fuck don't think he was innocent either, he was obviously trying to antagonize the situation.
          Don't be ridiculous. Being a little antagonistic to an unjust traffic stop doesn't warrant shit. They shouldn't have used ANY force, just got back in their cruiser and left.
          paint sucks

          Comment

          • dkbmxer002
            E30 Fanatic
            • Nov 2007
            • 1389

            #6
            Originally posted by Wh33lhop
            Don't be ridiculous. Being a little antagonistic to an unjust traffic stop doesn't warrant shit. They shouldn't have used ANY force, just got back in their cruiser and left.
            do you have trouble reading? i said they shouldn't have used the force they did. but again the guy was obviously being an antagonistic prick.

            Comment

            • Wh33lhop
              R3V OG
              • Feb 2009
              • 11705

              #7
              Originally posted by dkbmxer002
              i said they shouldn't have used the force they did.
              By which you imply that they should have used some force, or done something besides leave.

              but again the guy was obviously being an antagonistic prick.
              Who cares? He was offering to be a witness. Cops should have the ability to exercise restraint; "addressing the issue" does not mean trying to arrest the guy for disagreeing--there should be no issue.
              paint sucks

              Comment

              • dkbmxer002
                E30 Fanatic
                • Nov 2007
                • 1389

                #8
                Originally posted by Wh33lhop
                By which you imply that they should have used some force, or done something besides leave.



                Who cares? He was offering to be a witness. Cops should have the ability to exercise restraint; "addressing the issue" does not mean trying to arrest the guy for disagreeing--there should be no issue.


                yes, i do believe they should not have left. you weren't there nor were i. are you trying to say because they are cops they are automatically at fault for pulling someone over for not stopping properly? did i miss the video showing that? what makes one random idiot automatically reliable over two officers of the law for pulling the other person over?

                guy refused to show identification and instead started video taping. he was obviously looking for trouble, but once again like i said it doesn't warrant the force they used but people shouldn't look at the man as innocent. i also found it funny they barely showed video of the moments leading up to the incident.

                Comment

                • Wh33lhop
                  R3V OG
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 11705

                  #9
                  Originally posted by dkbmxer002
                  yes, i do believe they should not have left. you weren't there nor were i. are you trying to say because they are cops they are automatically at fault for pulling someone over for not stopping properly? did i miss the video showing that? what makes one random idiot automatically reliable over two officers of the law for pulling the other person over?
                  Let me get this straight. You see some guy get obviously wrongfully pulled over, state that you disagree with the police and will testify to that extent. Immediately the cops come over and start harassing you, asking for your ID and shit, CLEARLY for no reason beyond the fact that you disagree with them, and you give them your info without a second thought? It doesn't at all occur to you that it may not be a good idea, that it is unwarranted, and maybe you should try to record what's going on in case you just stepped into a shitstorm and two cops who you just saw make a bullshit traffic stop and pin someone else with something they didn't do are now turning to you?

                  I am playing devil's advocate here, but you don't have any idea more than I do of what happened. Is he somehow breaking the law by stating that he disagrees with a cop? No? Then why the fuck do they start advancing on him and arrest him? If I clearly saw someone get a ticket for something they didn't do, I'd probably do something similar.
                  paint sucks

                  Comment

                  • dkbmxer002
                    E30 Fanatic
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 1389

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Wh33lhop
                    Let me get this straight. You see some guy get obviously wrongfully pulled over, state that you disagree with the police and will testify to that extent. Immediately the cops come over and start harassing you, asking for your ID and shit, CLEARLY for no reason beyond the fact that you disagree with them, and you give them your info without a second thought? It doesn't at all occur to you that it may not be a good idea, that it is unwarranted, and maybe you should try to record what's going on in case you just stepped into a shitstorm and two cops who you just saw make a bullshit traffic stop and pin someone else with something they didn't do are now turning to you?

                    I am playing devil's advocate here, but you don't have any idea more than I do of what happened. Is he somehow breaking the law by stating that he disagrees with a cop? No? Then why the fuck do they start advancing on him and arrest him? If I clearly saw someone get a ticket for something they didn't do, I'd probably do something similar.


                    right off the bat, what proof do you have he was wrongfully pulled over? show me one shred of this other than one person's testimony vs two others.



                    if you are innocent and trying to step in as a bystander why would you go to cell phone or camera first and not give the ID, i would have said here is my id, start writing down my information because i want to step in on this. when they ask for him to step back he does not do so. how do the cops know he isn't some douche with a gun or intent to do harm in the process?

                    Comment

                    • Wh33lhop
                      R3V OG
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 11705

                      #11
                      No proof either way. Yet you assume off the bat that he's bullshitting... I'm just sayin'.
                      paint sucks

                      Comment

                      • dkbmxer002
                        E30 Fanatic
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 1389

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wh33lhop
                        No proof either way. Yet you assume off the bat that he's bullshitting... I'm just sayin'.

                        the fact that he did not give them his id and instead pulled out a camera IN THE VIDEO, did not step back and respect the officers IN THE VIDEO and he resisted arrest IN THE VIDEO are all facts that show he wasn't being the super citizen that is being portrayed.


                        and yes, i understand that if you are being hit etc you may not want to cooperate but would it have come to that if he didn't just listen? and again no i am not saying what they did was right either. i also find it very suspicious that they don't play the video from start to finish unedited.

                        Comment

                        • Wh33lhop
                          R3V OG
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 11705

                          #13
                          I'm on an iPhone now so I can't rewatch the video, but I remember the cops advancing on him. How do you "stand back" in that situation?

                          I'd be a little reluctant to cooperate too if the cops I was dealing with gave a guy a ticket for something he didn't do. Obviously they're not exactly looking to serve and protect.

                          Obviously if the guy made it all up this is moot, but even in that case I think they could have handled it without harassing him at all.
                          paint sucks

                          Comment

                          • joshh
                            R3V OG
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 6195

                            #14
                            Originally posted by dkbmxer002
                            they definitely shouldn't have used the force they did. but i sure as fuck don't think he was innocent either, he was obviously trying to antagonize the situation.


                            I pretty much agree with this.
                            I can see both sides. But there's also missing information. If the guy just talked to the driver or even waited till after the ticket was given, nothing would have happened.
                            But it does look like these cops just couldn't suck it up enough.
                            But for all we know the driver didn't stop at the sign in the first place.
                            Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

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                            Comment

                            • mrsleeve
                              I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 16385

                              #15
                              1: the attempt to detain the pedestrian, was 1st and foremost BULL SHIT and a violation of the 4th. Let alone the subsequent beating and punishment for standing his ground against a gestapo like enforcer of the state.

                              2: You dont have to show your ID to any cop strictly on the fact they want to see it. If they have no probable cause (you know like a traffic stop gives them), then you are well with in your rights to tell them to Pound sand.

                              3: Just because you offer your self as a witness to a bogus traffic stop, or even have a brief conversation with some one that is pulled over for a simple traffic stop is not Probable cause. If the officers have a solid case against the motorist your testimony wont do shit. Its their job to have significant evidence, to make the case to prove you have done the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. You are also innocent till proven guilty too remember that (sadly with traffic cops its not that way).

                              4. The charges on the pedestrian did not stick, Why you ask???? THE 4TH AMENDMENT, if this guy had the means and the nerve he could have resisted with deadly force, the assault on his person. Just saying is all, the out come for him would not have been as rosy thats for sure.

                              Just another example of cops trying hiding behind a badge as an above the law we can do anything pass. Trying to intimidate and punish a citizen they have sworn to protect, that has chosen to speak against their will. Its bull shit, I hope these 2 lose their jobs are stripped of their credentials, forfeit their pensions and end up on the streets. This kind of behavior should not be tolerated period, when this happens they should be on immediate suspension without pay, until they are show to be justified in their actions. Sadly it seems as many departments are seeking out officers like this and training the Youngins to be like this, all in a days work this is how the job is done. The last few encounters I have had with cops, seem to think they are patrol in Iraq and are looking for an IED in everyone car.

                              Lastly NEVER EVER TALK TO COPS. NEVER

                              discalimer: There are good cops out there, and those I would defend in a heart beat and praise their actions, sadly those seem to be a dying breed and are getting farther and fewer between.
                              Last edited by mrsleeve; 08-21-2010, 11:20 PM.
                              Originally posted by Fusion
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