Pure Socialism vs. Pure Capitalism: A Philosophical Discussion

[LBJefferies]

Pure Capitalism
Pros:
High amount of technological innovation
High amount of individual freedom
Globalization creates peace between nations

Cons:
Low regard for human health
Low regard for health of the environment

Pure Socialism
Pros:
Income equality (due to regulation)
High regard for human health (due to regulation)
High Regard for environmental health (due to regulation)

Cons:
Low amount of individual freedom
Low amount of technological innovation

My point is that both systems have their pros, however both are fundamentally flawed as well. The goal of this thread is to find the ideal middle point at which each of these very different systems should operate in order to maximize individual freedom, maximize technological innovation, maximize human health, maximize health of the natural environment and bring about universal happiness and world peace. :)

Soooo, who's up to the task?

[KenC]

I don't think you've defined either well, and have made some lofty assumptions.

[mrsleeve]

I don't think you've defined either well, and have made some lofty assumptions.

wow we agree 2 times in one day.


Capitalism WORKS for the long haul, and many of the greatest societies have flourished under similar principals.

Socialism works on the short term, only until the govt runs outta everyone else's money. Then the devolve into many of the worsts examples of society

I still dont get whats so hard about these concepts for you to grasp.


I take it you want some kind of state capitalism like china has. Got news for you that wont work either, it still dose not account for human nature.

[Kershaw]

unbridled capitalism does not work.

[Wiglaf]

it works if you don't mind the weak dying in the street

[Sailor37]

unbridled capitalism does not work.

Doesn't work for whom exactly?

[Wiglaf]

Doesn't work for whom exactly?

It can't be pure, the regulation needs to be there. Unchecked, monopolies quickly make it into a lop-sided situation which does not benefit the majority.
And look what happened with the banks, they collectively screwed the pooch for short-term gains.

In pure capitalism there wouldn't be much of a middle class at all. You either own the business or you are under it. That situation stifles new opportunities.

[mrsleeve]

It can't be pure, the regulation needs to be there. Unchecked, monopolies quickly make it into a lop-sided situation which does not benefit the majority.
And look what happened with the banks, they collectively screwed the pooch for short-term gains.

In pure capitalism there wouldn't be much of a middle class at all. You either own the business or you are under it. That situation stifles new opportunities.

things have a way of working them selves out and things come about to counter those forces and balance the power out again.

This is the founding reasons for the unions, and things were good for all till the govt corrupted both, Business with special interests and the unions used as mas voting blocks for political power. Not a good situation for either side, and why we have a over bloated and ever oppressive govt.

[Sailor37]

So, who measures the benefit to the majority and what's the basis used, and who/what determines majority and minority populations of individuals, collective financial holdings, etc? It's relative to who you're asking.

The key for continued capitalism is population control, but then you're in a whole other scenario as far individual freedom is concerned.

The thing is, no system, anywhere will maintain itself in a single mode of control for eternity...certain systems have done better than others (again depending upon who you're asking)...but none will exist indefinitely.

Individual study, and education (and not institutional education), but personal desire to seek and learn, is the key to a healthy society. Unfortunately, which what the US is almost bankrupt of....a shame really.

[Kershaw]

things have a way of working them selves out and things come about to counter those forces and balance the power out again.

This is the founding reasons for the unions, and things were good for all till the govt corrupted both, Business with special interests and the unions used as mas voting blocks for political power. Not a good situation for either side, and why we have a over bloated and ever oppressive govt.

[ck_taft325is]

So, who measures the benefit to the majority and what's the basis used, and who/what determines majority and minority populations of individuals, collective financial holdings, etc? It's relative to who you're asking.

The key for continued capitalism is population control, but then you're in a whole other scenario as far individual freedom is concerned.

The thing is, no system, anywhere will maintain itself in a single mode of control for eternity...certain systems have done better than others (again depending upon who you're asking)...but none will exist indefinitely.

Individual study, and education (and not institutional education), but personal desire to seek and learn, is the key to a healthy society. Unfortunately, which what the US is almost bankrupt of....a shame really.

Name a place on this planet that this occurs "naturally"?

We're offered oppertunity, not "will". Some would say that the very fact that it's offered so generously is why we as a society take it for granted. While there are the rare person, this does not happen in mass in any country.

[Kruzen]

Name a place on this planet that this occurs "naturally"?

We're offered oppertunity, not "will". Some would say that the very fact that it's offered so generously is why we as a society take it for granted. While there are the rare person, this does not happen in mass in any country.

Luxembourg

[slammin.e28]

Noting PURE is ever really good. You have to blend the best of both. The problem we have currently is the Gvmnt is trying to get it's hand into every cookie jar it can. Healthcare, the internet, etc. Small large gvmt with more power to the states is better. It allows the states to govern over it's smaller population, which (if you look at the election results) is usually swinging far left, or far right. Think of it as a more personalized government!