Egypt unrest

[Farbin Kaiber]

What?

I was refering only to the US in that statement.

Option One - Cut off due to "Outside Terrorists"

Option Two - Cut off due to patriotic, freedom and liberty loving masses whom are not going to take it anymore, standing up for their rights...


I don't want to see either. It's not a power that should be held.

[KenC]

Even though it has little to do with what is happening in the middle east, I do not think there is one party in the US government that wants to control the internet and other media more then the other.
Both republicans and democrats alike seek to control the media sources that the American people have accesses to, along with the ways in which we can communicate via phone and internet.
It is in the governments best interested to be able to filter and control all the information that is fed to us on a daily basis. It would also be very beneficial for them to be able to shut down cell phone service and internet connection in case of any social unrest that threatens the current ruling class of America.
By the way this hole rep vs. dem thing only serves to divide Americans, and weeken us as a people. This makes us easier to control.
Divide and conquer.

If you're asserting that the government's first interest is to protect the "landed aristocracy," that's getting a little conspiracy theory-ish.

[deutschman]

Even though it has little to do with what is happening in the middle east, I do not think there is one party in the US government that wants to control the internet and other media more then the other.
Both republicans and democrats alike seek to control the media sources that the American people have accesses to, along with the ways in which we can communicate via phone and internet.
It is in the governments best interested to be able to filter and control all the information that is fed to us on a daily basis. It would also be very beneficial for them to be able to shut down cell phone service and internet connection in case of any social unrest that threatens the current ruling class of America.
By the way this hole rep vs. dem thing only serves to divide Americans, and weeken us as a people. This makes us easier to control.
Divide and conquer.

[KenC]

You could cut off the source due to an outside threat, or, on the same side of the coin, you could shut it off because the masses are communication about throwing you out. I'd rather have neither opposed to both.

What?

[Farbin Kaiber]

You could cut off the source due to an outside threat, or, on the same side of the coin, you could shut it off because the masses are communication about throwing you out. I'd rather have neither opposed to both.

[CorvallisBMW]

You guys know that President Mubarak is a US puppet dictatorship right?


http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/egypt.htm

Very true. Egypt was scheduled to get about $1.5B from the US in (mostly military) aid this year:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Hence why the US has only called for restraint and a stop to violence, but not for Mubarak to step down.

[KenC]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

Just read the whole article. I'm not opposed to it. If the US infrastructure (electrical grids, etc) is under a cyber attack and at risk or being severely damaged, I don't see why you wouldn't just cut off the source.

[CorvallisBMW]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

Did you read that article? It was drafted and introduced by 2 senators (Rockafeller, D, WV and Snow, R, MA) not the President. And it went absolutely nowhere. So your claim of 'the president is trying to gain the power to shut down the internet' is false on 2 counts.

Love it, deflect back to the original topic, instead of the conversation that is being carried on. Good way to avoid when you find you were wrong, it's ok, we have all done it.

Yes, that's what this thread was about until you and joshh decided to interject with your conspiracy theories about government takeovers of the internet, cell phones, army and police. You made the accusation, the burden of proof lies with you.

[deutschman]

You guys know that President Mubarak is a US puppet dictatorship right?

Country Profile

From the Camp David peace accords in 1978 until 2000 (the latest year for which figures are available), the United States has subsidized Egypt's armed forces with over $38 billion worth of aid. Egypt receives about $2 billion annually--$1.3 billion in foreign military financing and about $815 million in economic support fund assistance --making it the second largest regular recipient of conventional U.S. military and economic aid, after Israel. In 1990, the United States also forgave $7.1 billion in past Egyptian military debt in return for Egypt's support of Operation Desert Shield. In addition, Egypt receives excess defense articles worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually from the Pentagon. The announcement that 23,000 U.S. troops will be based in Egypt to conduct biannual military training exercises (Operation Bright Star) may have longer term implications for U.S. aid to the region, as might Egypt's willingness to support U.S. efforts against the Taliban.

Though the 1990s have brought economic improvements, Egypt is still poor, with an estimated 2000 annual GDP-per-capita of $3,600. In 1999, Egypt spent 2.7 percent of its gross national product and $2.508 billion in constant 1998 U.S. dollars on its military.

Massive U.S. military support of Egypt has coincided with 20 years of rule under Emergency Law, and continues despite regular reports of serious human rights abuses committed by the Egyptian government. According to the U.S. State Department's 2000 Human Rights Report, "The dominant role of the President and the entrenched NDP (National Democratic Party) control the political scene to such an extent that citizens do not have a meaningful ability to change their Government."

The government's abuse of Emergency Law powers increased dramatically in 1992 in response to a violent campaign launched by Islamic militants. Yet despite reductions in extremist violence, the Egyptian government has continued its crackdown, including what the U.S. State Department terms “numerous serious human rights abuses” committed by state security forces. These abuses include torture, arbitrary arrest, prolonged pretrial detention, extrajudicial executions, and "disappearances," and are often committed with impunity. Years of abuse by national anti-terrorist groups appear to have filtered down to afflict common citizens; according to Human Rights Watch's 2000 Report, in 1999 “evidence continued to mount that local police forces were employing similar torture techniques against ordinary citizens that elite security forces had used systematically against suspected armed militants, their families, and supporters.” In June 2000, the Emergency Law was extended for another three years. The Human Rights Watch's 2001 Report details more recent infringements of human rights committed by Mubarak's government in the run up to elections held in the autumn of 2000. Human Rights Watch reported that, "State security forces continued to commit grave human rights violations with impunity, including the detention without charge or trial of political detainees and torture, and political opponents continued to be sentenced after unfair trials."

The United States sells Egypt a large amount of military equipment and a significant number of small arms; such weaponry is both likely to be used for internal security and difficult to track once sold. These two factors could easily enable such weaponry to find its way into the hands of abusive government security forces. In fact, during fiscal years 1996-1999, according to the U.S. government’s “Section 655” reports, the United States delivered $10 million worth of small arms via the Pentagon’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program and authorized export licenses worth more than $4.8 million through State’s Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) channel. Small arms delivered or authorized included ammunition and raw materials for ammunition, grenades, a variety of pistols and rifles, and riot control equipment.

Arms sales have consistently outweighed regional balance and human rights issues in the U.S.-Egyptian relationship. Defense Secretary Cohen, in defending a 1999 decision to sell Egypt sophisticated Patriot air defense missiles, asserted that the United States had to grant Egyptian requests for high-tech arms because otherwise Egypt “would take it as an insult” and would “seek another supplier.” Yet Egyptian military planners still consider Israel, also a major U.S. weapons customer and aid recipient, to be one of their country’s greatest military threats.

Also disturbing is the fact that the United States’ second largest beneficiary of military aid can be found on the CIA's list of known proliferators, along with Iran, Iraq, and North Korea. According to the CIA’s most recent report on proliferation-related acquisition, “Egypt continues its effort to develop and produce ballistic missiles with the assistance of North Korea. This activity is part of a long-running program of ballistic missile cooperation between these two countries.” The range of these weapons is significant; Egypt could feasibly target all of Israel and beyond. Egypt continues strenuously to deny this allegation, but concerns about Egyptian cooperation with the North Koreans has resulted in a U.S. promise to increase and regularize the monitoring of Egypt's weapons procurement. A 1999 General Accounting Office investigation found that military technology was sold through the Pentagon's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program in violation of the Missile Technology Control Regime to a unnamed country which has co-produced M1A1 tanks since 1989--most likely Egypt (Foreign Military Sales: Review Process for Controlled Missile Technology Needs Improvement, September 1999, 99-231).

In 1999, Egypt received a $3.2 billion grant from the United States to subsidize a major military moderization program. This grant has resulted in the sale of 24 top of the line F-16 fighter jets, 200 heavy tanks and 3 Patriot missile system fire units. Congressional approval of the sale of AMRAAM missiles to Egypt followed in 2000; to appease Israel, the terms of the sale stipulate that Egypt will not be allowed to deploy these missiles on their aircraft. High value purchases continue in 2001 with the sales of helicopters, missile patrol craft, three-dimensional radar systems, 26 MLRS and 50 Stinger Vehicle Universal Launchers. Egypt's coproduction agreements also allow it to manufacture American weapons, such as the M1A1 Abrams main battle tank, on Egyptian soil.

Background Information

CIA Factbook entry for Egypt.
Egypt-U.S. Relations CRS Issue Brief, August 2002.
Human Rights Watch 2001 Report on Egypt.
Human Rights Watch 2000 Report on Egypt.
State Department Human Rights Report on Egypt for 2002.
State Department Human Rights Report on Egypt for 2001.
State Department Human Rights Report on Egypt for 2000.
State Department Human Rights Report on Egypt for 1999
State Department Human Rights Report on Egypt for 1998.

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/egypt.htm

If the people manage to overthrow this "President" I do not think it will be good for the USA or Israel. If you walk down the streets in Egypt and ask everyday people who has helped keep Mubarak in power they will tell you the USA.
If the USA looses him they will loose a lot of control in that part of the world, and Israel will be threatened from yet another direction. Another 6 day war? Maybe so.
The USA has supported men like this in many of the countries we are fighting today.
The USA supported Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and his rule over Iran during the cold war to protect US interested from the Russians. The Iranian revolution happened in 1979, and look where that country is now.
After the Iranian revolution we supported Saddam Hussein in his fight against Iran in 1980. He eventually turned against the US as well.
During the cold war in 1979 we also supplied arms and training to factions in Afghanistan. Some of these factions (mujahideen) were to become modern day Al-Qaeda durring and after the revolution in 1989.
There is an obvious trend of US support and withdrawal, immediately fallowed revolution that id not in the best interest of the USA.
Interesting.

[Farbin Kaiber]

One last question, then I'll leave the dead horse to rot...

Darin, Did you know about the White House's activity in trying to gain this power before I ever brought it up?

[CorvallisBMW]

This reminds me somewhat of the revolutions in Eastern Europe 20 years ago that resulted in the downfall of the USSR. Is starts in one country and soon spreads to other, with each group of citizens taking back control of their own country from the regimes that ruled them with an iron fist.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Love it, deflect back to the original topic, instead of the conversation that is being carried on. Good way to avoid when you find you were wrong, it's ok, we have all done it.

[joshh]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

[CorvallisBMW]

Back OT, enough x-files tin foil hat bulllshit:

A BBC reporter was apparently deliberately targeted by the security police and severely beaten, having to be taken to a hospital.

" The BBC has condemned the assault of one of its journalists by Egyptian security officials during today's disturbances in Cairo. BBC Global News Director Peter Horrocks said the attack on Assad Sawey was a deliberate assault by police. "The BBC condemns this assault on one of our correspondents by the authorities," said Mr Horrocks. "We shall be forcefully protesting this brutal action directly to the Egyptian authorities. It is vital that all journalists, whether from the BBC or elsewhere, are allowed to do their job of bringing accurate, impartial eye witness reports to audiences around the world without fear." "

Egypt's currency falls to a six-year-low, and the main stock exchange index dropping by nearly a third.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/28/us-egypt-markets-factbox-idUSTRE70R5CV20110128?WT.tsrc=Social%20Media&WT.z_smid=twtr-reuters_%20com&WT.z_smid_dest=Twitter

[Farbin Kaiber]

Can you tell me I'm wrong, and the facts are not as follows; Egypt HAS shut down internet access due to "issue", BHO Administration REQUESTED the ability to shut down internet access due to "unforseen issues".