This Looks Bad For Planned Parenthood?

[ck_taft325is]

Oddly Joshh, there's a middle ground that you seem unwilling to admit exists. The same bullcrap that any one side spouts is exactly that. ONE sided. Not every poor person is irresponsible and lazy. Not every rich person is obtrusively disdainful and unhearing of the needs of those around them. But, we like to think there is.

[joshh]

This is fair. Thanks for being level-headed about it. I assumed you subscribe to the same vitriolic bullshit joshh champions.

Again your expecting them to understand the word responsibility.

Yep vitriolic bullshit alright.

[joshh]

well if you cant afford the kids (or refuse to take responsibility and provide properly) , be responsible and dont fuck.

But yeah we know thats not gonna happen as thats would require people to do the right thing

Again your expecting them to understand the word responsibility.

[mar1t1me]

Again, adoption agencies.

I wish it were that simple....

It is far harder to adopt than to give birth. As far as PP goes, there is 1 adoption referral for every 62 abortions. :(

[gwb72tii]

Does this mean the government can tax us for any purpose as long as they specify where the money is to be spent?

not at all
its that one IS specific and the other is the big grey area that congress spends at whim
that shit has to stop

the problem, in a nutshell, is we've digressed so far away from a limited government with limited powers that anyone can justify anything a slong as it benefits someone.

that is not what our constitution says the fed government should be

my local rep, norm dicks, bragged a year ago in my friday am rotary meeting about how much money he brings home from washington dc, that part of the money he bagged was used to construct a museum in bremerton. why should you be paying for a museum in bremerton? do you even know where bremerton is?

I WANT MY 5 BUCKS

[gwb72tii]

gross annual tax income: 1,175,422,000,000
planned parenthood budget: 300,000,000
new gross annual tax income: 1,175,122,000,000

Average savings per tax payer: 0.0255227484% (that's 2/100ths of a %)
If you pay 20K a year in taxes, this savings represents... $5.

i WANT my 5 bucks

[frankenbeemer]

People that go to support groups are typically there because they need support of some sort. I'm not disagreeing with your factual experience, but you're experiencing confirmation bias.

In any case, it's kind of funny that here we are, a bunch of guys debating the right of women to have access to government-funded sexual health clinics. It's like a primarily female pregnancy-related forum having huge arguments about Cash for Clunkers.

LOL, I almost feel quilty. I really am trying to think this through on a logical basis. Note, almost all the above is way off topic.

I'm wondering what I want the government to be responsible for. How does cash for clunkers help me?

[frankenbeemer]

no, because there are specific federal gas tax dollars specific to transportation related issues, that's why.
this is a private company getting $300 million/yr to perform abortions. there is no specific tax involved dedicated to abortions, it comes from my social security withholding (ie the general fund, which BTW borrows $0.40 for every dollar spent).
and the tax savings is moot
if you can't start here and defund PP and Acorn and others like them, there will never be a balanced budget

Does this mean the government can tax us for any purpose as long as they specify where the money is to be spent?

[kronus]

People that go to support groups are typically there because they need support of some sort. I'm not disagreeing with your factual experience, but you're experiencing confirmation bias.

In any case, it's kind of funny that here we are, a bunch of guys debating the right of women to have access to government-funded sexual health clinics. It's like a primarily female pregnancy-related forum having huge arguments about Cash for Clunkers.

[ck_taft325is]

This is fair. Thanks for being level-headed about it. I assumed you subscribe to the same vitriolic bullshit joshh champions.

Do you know if anyone you know that wanted to adopt a child had problems doing so due to a shortage of available orphans? According to this there are ~115,000 children available for adoption presently.

Also, the adoption solution doesn't cover many medical or social reasons for abortions. Bearing a baby for ~9 months due to rape sounds like a hugely scarring psychological experience. More scenarios are available upon request.

I'm not familar with the statistics of women who are raped that have abortions but in general I can't imagine it's over ~1%?

There actually are, yes. Two of the couples I know personally waited for over a year to find a baby. They adopted a 7 year old in the process and now have 3 kids. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people, such as my neighbor get fed up with the Government adoption system which blows huge chunks and the smaller agencies are just not known enough and suffer drastically from under funding.

Having a child, another on the way and an Ex-GF that had an abortion despite my pleading with her over it, I can tell you it's less scarring and can be healing.

There was a woman, or girl really, that was raped and had an abortion in one of the support groups I helped with. I wont go into details out of respect but it as she said, it was a horrific event that occured to her and followed by another drastic mistake on her part. I realize not all women will feel this way. But, we're not talking about the majority here. We're talking about a minority of raped women that while I feel and would encourage them to let this maybe heal or even just let go to adoption as the child did nothing wrong in her rape but is a byproduct, we're talking about birth control through abortion.

There's not a woman I've met yet, in support groups or otherwise that haven't regretted aborting their child. And as I've said in the past the majority of women I've known have the same story. Fear. Fear that is reinforced by Planned Parenthood with standard schpeels such as, "It's your life and it'll never be the same if you dont...", ect. While this statement is not really wrong, as your life does change, they make it sound rather cryptic. How do I know they use these tactics and pressure? I've been present.

Well, Kronus, no worries. You can assume but I wouldn't pigeon hole me quite that hard ;)

[mrsleeve]

and deny something that is in our nature?

our nature is to raise and take care of our off spring, well now thanks to the nanny state, you dont have to provide for your family. If you are too lazy thats ok the rest of us will do it for you and thats WRONG.

If you are not gonna man up, then at least wrap it up.

[kronus]

words

This is fair. Thanks for being level-headed about it. I assumed you subscribe to the same vitriolic bullshit joshh champions.

Do you know if anyone you know that wanted to adopt a child had problems doing so due to a shortage of available orphans? According to this there are ~115,000 children available for adoption presently.

Also, the adoption solution doesn't cover many medical or social reasons for abortions. Bearing a baby for ~9 months due to rape sounds like a hugely scarring psychological experience. More scenarios are available upon request.

[Dozyproductions]

well if you cant afford the kids (or refuse to take responsibility and provide properly) , be responsible and dont fuck.

But yeah we know thats not gonna happen as thats would require people to do the right thing

and deny something that is in our nature?

[ck_taft325is]

Ain't no fair way around the fact that stupid people will do stupid things. We do not have the resources to righteously proclaim we are pro-life at all costs. Some of the biggest pro-lifers seem to also be against welfare, which blows my mind. If you are going to force a low-income woman to carry to term and give birth to a child she does not want, but then remove the supports that might allow for care of said child by a mother who must also work,.....well it just seems self-righteously naive.

Since PP serves as an educational and resource center for women who either do not wish to get pregnant (they dispense birth control devices, as well as counseling) or who are pregnant whether or not they choose abortion, it is possible to consider them as more than just a baby killing factory, which is what the pro-lifers would have you believe is all they do.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, there are about 3000 abortions per day in the US. Of those, the data suggests that PP is only performing about 10% of them.

There are 844 PP clinics, but only 295 offer surgical/medical (rather than pill induced) abortions, so it would seem they do more counseling than killing.....

I guess I'm OK with 2 tenths of a cent per day to keep the US from having an extra million or so unwanted babies born every year....

Don't get me wrong....I'm not in love with abortion, but I don't see a way past the reality of what prohibiting abortion would mean to this country.

Maybe in some distant future, we'll harvest a woman's eggs and collect sperm from men after puberty, then render them both sterile. Later, after they've passed all the tests and have been certified as able parents, the "state" will allow impregnation......that way you can fuck til you faint without worry. Shit.....that right there would probably end war!

Again, adoption agencies.

[ck_taft325is]

It's funny that you defend "the life expectancy of Children" but viciously attack welfare and health care which primarily benefit those children.

Not really. I'm thinking you might have me confused with someone else. I actually think everyone should give more redily to those in need. Especially those directly in their lives.

The fact is, while you can't stop people from being Welfare queens, which as you and I both know are mostly rare, it's less about someone's straight up "choices in life" and far more about the state of the Country. Listen, I've been poor my entire life. I've made things work that shouldn't have and made poor decisions as everyone has but it's no candy land out there for ANYONE in the sub $55,000 catagory.

Planned Parenthood does offer what, if you've had a personal experience in the slightest, a poor, ill thought and ill educated about solution to women who made a mistake or many. Welfare queens are a poor argument to use on EITHER side of any debate as they do not respresent the norm when it comes to Welfare, Poor people (such as myself), teenagers, ect. So, to make a claim that this is the only solution for "unwanted" babies is retarded as the majority make this decision out of fear. I have worked with and been apart of many abortion recovery groups. The story is the same after the fear wears off and reality actually sets in about what they chose.

Also, there's a ridiculous amount of married men and women that would love these "unwanted babies" with more than you can imagine out there. I personally know 17 couples that have tried to have kids and cannot for one reason or another. 12 have adopted. 7 of those have adopted more than one. Yeah.

There's organizations out there that offer adoption at almost no cost to the parents at all. Tell me again those babies are unwanted. It's a lie.