An entire war based on one man's lie?

[tjts1]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/...ex.html?hpt=C1

Asked if the United States would not have invaded if the administration hadn't believed Iraq had the weapons of mass destruction, Rumsfeld said: "I think that's probably right."

All those trillions spent. Billions more unaccounted for. Thousands of US lives lost. Families destroyed by prolonged deployments. All apparently for a lie.

I can tell you from my close work with service personnel, this is the other shoe they were waiting for to drop....

Jesus I hate politicians.

Bush and his whole gang were a bunch of fuck tard. We knew it then, we know it now, the only question left is how do we make them to face justice for their crimes?

[tjts1]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/...ex.html?hpt=C1

Asked if the United States would not have invaded if the administration hadn't believed Iraq had the weapons of mass destruction, Rumsfeld said: "I think that's probably right."

All those trillions spent. Billions more unaccounted for. Thousands of US lives lost. Families destroyed by prolonged deployments. All apparently for a lie.

I can tell you from my close work with service personnel, this is the other shoe they were waiting for to drop....

Jesus I hate politicians.

Bush and his whole gang are a bunch of criminals. We knew it then, we know it now, the only question left is how do we make them to face justice for their crimes?

[tjts1]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/...ex.html?hpt=C1

Asked if the United States would not have invaded if the administration hadn't believed Iraq had the weapons of mass destruction, Rumsfeld said: "I think that's probably right."

All those trillions spent. Billions more unaccounted for. Thousands of US lives lost. Families destroyed by prolonged deployments. All apparently for a lie.

I can tell you from my close work with service personnel, this is the other shoe they were waiting for to drop....

Jesus I hate politicians.

Bush and his whole gang are a bunch of criminals. We knew it then, we know it now, the only question left is how do we make them to face justice for their crimes?

[Bene]

Study up on the Korean Conflict, when you see why the DMZ is still at the 38th. Then think about who is holding a sizable portion of our govt debts.

The answers you seek should be glaringly obvious.

Stop with the securing oil argument, many of the current production contracts for Iraqi oil have gone to the Russians anyway.

So N. Korea is on good terms with China. Politically, that makes sense.

What we're really after is to justify why we really went to Iraq in the first place. On the surface, control of the oil fields seems the most obvious.

Sure Saddam was a dick (to put it lightly), but how was he a real threat to national security?

If not for the control of oil, the only other logical explanation I can see is the Orwellian need for wars.

[mrsleeve]

So N. Korea is on good terms with China. Politically, that makes sense.

What we're really after is to justify why we really went to Iraq in the first place. On the surface, control of the oil fields seems the most obvious.

Sure Saddam was a dick (to put it lightly), but how was he a real threat to national security?

If not for the control of oil, the only other logical explanation I can see is the Orwellian need for wars.

There is much more to it N Korea/China than that, keep digging.


I really would suggest you drop the War for oil and the Michal Moore talking points, you are just losing what little credibility you have

[RainierHooker]

Sure Saddam was a dick (to put it lightly), but how was he a real threat to national security?

It wasn't really a matter of our security, but rather the security of a region in which we have a lot of 'friends', most of which have VERY strong lobbies in our Government. Saddam constantly rattled the sabre at Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, and Turkey due to, among other things, their close relations with the US. So you could say that all those bodies made it our problem.

Personally, I really wish that these places would solve thier own differences with out my tax dollars, but the simple fact is that they exert a huge amount of pressure on us politically and ecconomicly. To be honest, if I were in their shoes I would do the same thing. That is, get someone bigger than you to fight your battles and take the heat.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^

Why you ruin all my fun, you just give him the answer

[Bene]

Ok, I can dig that. But what do those countries bring to the 'friendship' besides oil reserves, and maybe a few weapons? I obviously don't know much about politics, but the powers at be must be expecting something in return. Unless our 'friends' outright buying our politicians off. I suppose a few million dollars here and there is a bargain compared to funding an entire war.

Kind of out there, but here goes: The mention of Israel reminded me of one (hopefully wacky) theory I had a few years ago about something in the Bible saying Jesus would come when there's conflict in the 'holy' land (no shit). Seeing the Bush family at least claims to be a wild pack of bible humping Jesus retards, maybe they're just trying to stir shit up out there to trigger the apocalypse.

and the only Moore movie I've seen is Canadian Bacon. I don't know much about the guy, but anyone that left or right wing is either insane, retarded, or most likely an opinion whore.

[RainierHooker]

These contries don't need to give us anything in exchange. They only need to exhert voting power on our voted officials. As long as voters (i.e. the parties) view support of these countries is necsisary to maintain thier power base (i.e. money) we will allways offer support for these countries without regard for return.

Think about it, why does the US still give the Gov't of Israel, one of the most developed and wealthy nations in the region, $14+ billion a year in 'foreign relief'? The simple answer is the very strong lobby in thier favor within our boarders. It is the same for all of our other 'friends' in the region.

[hi its me alec]

No, it wasn't ''one man's lie.'' It was the fulfillment of the political leanings of a small section of the Republican party. Bush/Cheney expected to find weapons and pushed that desire to find them on the intelligence community. They weren't searching for useful intelligence, only the right pieces for their own puzzle, and it didn't even matter when they couldn't find them.

I've seen interviews of intel officials (www.freedocumentaries.com - sorry don't remember which one it was,) explaining how they couldn't find any trace of the weapons, reported their lack of findings, and all the higher-ups simply dismissed the findings and said "no, they are definitely there. oh, and don't report your findings to anyone or we'll squish you like bug." Cheney verbally wanted to move into Iraq before 9/11 happened. Bush put a bunch of his rich corporate southern buddies in charge of domestic and foreign policy. Halliburton got the government contract in Iraq. Bush and Cheney are, without a doubt, millions richer because of that. All the signs are right there before the 'evidence' is even brought to the table.

Oh and not to mention, Bush stole the election in Florida. Of course there's no 100% 'legal' proof because his brother and campaign contributors were at the wheel the whole time, but there are bundles of information out there, all pointing in that direction with 100% certainty. Someone who literally steals an election is obviously not the most well-intended. Which is why people threw eggs at his limo when he tried to make his first walk of fame.

And you have to remember, anything you see in the media about these topics is passed through the filter of right-leaning bias. Rupert Murdoch and ClearChannel do own over 90% of the air/radio waves here in the US. Everyone under him at ClearChannel is hand-picked to fulfill his leanings, and then those people are implied to hire the 'right' managers at each station, who will hire reporters that look/sound good and have no personal opinion whatsoever on what they're reporting. FOX is really a single entity in control of the entire country's news. Nobody seems to realize... the whole truth is rarely reported to us now. The truth is basically confined to *some* documentaries and freelance reporting, plus random places across the internet and random (usually unimportant) newscasts. Meanwhile the mass media has been getting all Fahrenheit 451/Brave New World on us, and most people are taking it with no questions asked, loving their Dancing With The Stars marathons

edit: Documentaries, give them a watch, they're interesting and legit.

Orwell Rolls in His Grave http://www.freedocumentaries.org/int.php?filmID=87
Iraq for Sale http://www.freedocumentaries.org/int.php?filmID=130

[ck_taft325is]

It wasn't really a matter of our security, but rather the security of a region in which we have a lot of 'friends', most of which have VERY strong lobbies in our Government. Saddam constantly rattled the sabre at Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, and Turkey due to, among other things, their close relations with the US. So you could say that all those bodies made it our problem.

Personally, I really wish that these places would solve thier own differences with out my tax dollars, but the simple fact is that they exert a huge amount of pressure on us politically and ecconomicly. To be honest, if I were in their shoes I would do the same thing. That is, get someone bigger than you to fight your battles and take the heat.

These contries don't need to give us anything in exchange. They only need to exhert voting power on our voted officials. As long as voters (i.e. the parties) view support of these countries is necsisary to maintain thier power base (i.e. money) we will allways offer support for these countries without regard for return.

Think about it, why does the US still give the Gov't of Israel, one of the most developed and wealthy nations in the region, $14+ billion a year in 'foreign relief'? The simple answer is the very strong lobby in thier favor within our boarders. It is the same for all of our other 'friends' in the region.

Dude, I'm not even kidding. You get back in town I'm buying you a beer and the wife and I will make you and your wife dinner. I'm dead serious and will be insulted if you neglect to make it out to the sticks (Orting) and have some steaks or whatever it is you two want. We make food. We like eating and we love good peoples. Just, you know, bring your M ;)


Everything this man said is where it's at. Thank you for the perspective and I greatly appreciate it. And your Service to this Country. God damnit, I'm all hot and bothered.

[Raxe]

An entire world full of sin and suffering based on one woman's disobedience !

[Kershaw]

^ huh?

[Raxe]

Dunno, my point was you can't blame something so huge and complicated on exactly one persons action. It can't be accurately simplified that way, just like you can't blame all of the worlds problems on one thing. It's a terrible comparison, I'll admit, but it sounded dramatic!

[mrsleeve]

^ huh?

Eve.........apple............



Try to keep up here. ;)