Sales of the GM Volt.

[vlad]

I saw NYC police chevy vault today in the city

[joshh]

Volt....

They should be able to keep up with horse buggies now with that POS.

[RobertK]

From the looks of that link, that thing isn't in production and you can't buy it. Still it makes far less sense than buying a Volt over a Leaf for anyone but the most hardcore EV nut.

You can easily build one on your own. Check EV forums. People build them out of gas generators and lawn trailers.

[priapism]

You can easily build one on your own. Check EV forums. People build them out of gas generators and lawn trailers.

Or I can get one from the factory that works better, is more efficient, and pollutes a tenth as much? Why the Chevy hate, I don't get it? The Volt is a better car, period.

Jay put 11k on his Volt without filling up: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...is-chevy-volt/

[Wiglaf]

I agree, those off-shelf generators are TERRIBLY inefficient. If you go on roadtrips then don't sell the gas car. duh.

Joshh, being uncompetitively priced doesn't make it a POS.

Electrics are a perfect fit for cop cars. They spend half the day just idling those things, the rest of the day mulling about in city traffic. From a pure economic view, of anyone out there they will recover the cost difference with gas savings the quickest. It's all reduced operating costs from there.

[Vedubin01]

how long do these batteries last? (not running life but life itself) What kind of warranty comes with these batteries, and what is replacement cost on the batteries? How long does the battery last before they start not to hold full charge?

[rwh11385]

how long do these batteries last? (not running life but life itself) What kind of warranty comes with these batteries, and what is replacement cost on the batteries? How long does the battery last before they start not to hold full charge?

It largely depends on how far the battery is discharged in its operating life. In general, let's say most EVs are designed to run to 80% discharged, so there is always some life left when "empty". If you went to a greater discharged amount, you would significantly shorten the batteries life.

The Leaf is set to operate deeper into discharge than the Volt, in part due to the fact that the Volt has a generator and liquid fuel and the Leaf's sole source of energy is the batteries.

IIRC, life should be 80-100K maybes and cost of replacement depends on number of batteries and technology... but GM has published from what I read the cost to them was $10K. Although it should be noted they have a 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty which is pretty ballsy business move that should either ensure confidence or be costly. (But look how that helped Hyundai)

The Leaf last time I read up had a greater amount of kwh and therefore batteries cost nearly double. (Maybe I posted that earlier in this thread... ?)

[priapism]

Priuses run in taxi duty have routinely gone 200k without significant degradation in battery performance. I think the Volt and Leaf use different types of battery though (Lithium based)

[Vedubin01]

IIRC, life should be 80-100K maybes and cost of replacement depends on number of batteries and technology... but GM has published from what I read the cost to them was $10K.

Devil's advocate....

So the resale value as they approach 100k will be almost worthless? Who would invest $10k for batteries, Im sure new brushes, etc... How can you justify that there is some sort of savings to these cars if you don't factor in depreciation values?

[rwh11385]

Devil's advocate....

So the resale value as they approach 100k will be almost worthless? Who would invest $10k for batteries, Im sure new brushes, etc... How can you justify that there is some sort of savings to these cars if you don't factor in depreciation values?

You're not playing Devil's advocate against me bro, I already mentioned that ITT:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=2597427&postcount=55

But what about the cost of replacing the batteries? $20k or more down the road?

The market will be flooded, eventually, with used EV's no one will buy because cost to repair makes less sense than cost to replace [the car].

[rwh11385]

Priuses run in taxi duty have routinely gone 200k without significant degradation in battery performance. I think the Volt and Leaf use different types of battery though (Lithium based)

Apples and Oranges...

Typical Prius NiMH only do a 30-50% DoD... Toyota really worked the powermanagment to get long life out of the NiMH.

Plus, presumably taxi has a LOT of stop and go driving, so therefore recharging the batteries constantly. (so even lower Depth of Discharge than average)

[Wiglaf]

Lithium is highly dependant on who made the battery. Not trying to derail this into a Chinese knockoff thing but there ARE problems with knockoff batts, and they hurt the reputation of good batteries.

A good set of batts will last an easy 10 years with little/no memory effects. I've got a cellphone and a laptop here that are 6-7 years in and hold a charge just like day 1. I've also had cellphone batts crap out after 1 year. But even those seem better than the nickel based batts we used to have to deal with.

Assuming the supplier is good, and assuming the charge/dicharge system treats the pack carefully, I'd expect an easy 200k from the lithiums, a 100k warranty is not a big risk.

But yeah, whenever the time comes that they need rework/replaced, it will cost money. And they are expensive. I'm just hoping that the price continues to drop. a few years ago this battery pack would have been $100k. In the next 5 years I expect it could drop to $4k or less.. Will probly still be more expensive than 200k's worth of oil changes and timing belts. But there's a lot of other shit to break on gas engines.

[Vedubin01]

But there's a lot of other shit to break on gas engines.

The Volt also uses a 1.4l gas engine. Factor in the cost of rebuild after 200k miles on that as well right?

[priapism]

The Volt also uses a 1.4l gas engine. Factor in the cost of rebuild after 200k miles on that as well right?

Doubtful, considering the engine rarely runs.

[Kershaw]

let's just change this thread title to: vedubin hates the volt - try to prove him wrong.