Sales of the GM Volt.

[dirtysix]

But here's the thing. We currently have diesel vehicles with better fuel economy than hybrids, with far less complexity and resource use.

How far down the road of hybrids do we have to go for hybrids to get the upper hand?

A long, long way is my guess.

As for hating diesels, well that leads us back to marketing. They used to be hated here too but have all but reversed that image. I suspect a lot of people out there think hybrids are cool cause dey got more stuffs in dem.

[cale]

Enlighten me then.

Tell me how adding a bank of batteries and an electric motor plus associated electronics to a petrol or diesel car increases it's efficiency in design, manufacture and resource use.

Other than a small decrease in fuel use, which can be achieved by other means, what other benefits are there?

How about progress towards even more efficient hybrid designs which will allow us to lessen our reliance on fossil fuels, potentially saving unknown quantities of fuel being burnt, does that count? New technology doesn't fall into our laps, we have to strive for it and work out the bugs. Look at the bigger picture.

As for the addition of those materials, don't try and change your argument now. You claimed that increased complexity could not boost efficiency, a completely inaccurate claim.

[rwh11385]

But here's the thing. We currently have diesel vehicles with better fuel economy than hybrids, with far less complexity and resource use.

How far down the road of hybrids do we have to go for hybrids to get the upper hand?

A long, long way is my guess.

As for hating diesels, well that leads us back to marketing. They used to be hated here too but have all but reversed that image. I suspect a lot of people out there think hybrids are cool cause dey got more stuffs in dem.

Now? If you like the vast majority of people live and drive within the EV-only zone from your home.

http://www.dailytech.com/GM+Chevy+Volt+Owners+Averaging+1000+Miles+Between+Gas+Stops/article21457.htm

Another Volt owner, Gary Davis said, "On April 11, I had to buy gas for the first time since filling up on January 9. In my Volt I’ve driven 4,600 miles on 8.4 gallons of gas. That’s an impressive 547 mpg that I am achieving with my Volt."

GM also introduced bi-fuel Silverado and Sierras for 2013 so they can run on CNG as well (an American-strong resource) and can also be made from anaerobic digestion (methane / natural gas made from waste).

[dirtysix]

How about progress towards even more efficient hybrid designs which will allow us to lessen our reliance on fossil fuels, potentially saving unknown quantities of fuel being burnt, does that count? New technology doesn't fall into our laps, we have to strive for it and work out the bugs. Look at the bigger picture.

As for the addition of those materials, don't try and change your argument now. You claimed that increased complexity could not boost efficiency, a completely inaccurate claim.

Hows that? Hybrids still require fossil fuels to operate properly. And there are currently diesel powered cars that require less. How about more progress towards even more efficient diesel cars? Without the added complexity and resourses of hybrid cars? Perhaps there's a bigger picture for you to look at?

And saying that adding complexity doesn't = improved efficiency is not the same as saying adding complexity could not boast efficiency, so don't twist it round to your liking.

[dirtysix]

Now? If you like the vast majority of people live and drive within the EV-only zone from your home.

http://www.dailytech.com/GM+Chevy+Volt+Owners+Averaging+1000+Miles+Between+Gas+Stops/article21457.htm

GM also introduced bi-fuel Silverado and Sierras for 2013 so they can run on CNG as well (an American-strong resource) and can also be made from anaerobic digestion (methane / natural gas made from waste).

So why not just buy straight electric cars then?

And duel fuel cars have been around for yonks, including CNG and LPG. But they have problems with range and power as well. And a different subject.

Anyways, been somewhat interesting but I gotta go.

[rwh11385]

Hows that? Hybrids still require fossil fuels to operate properly. And there are currently diesel powered cars that require less. How about more progress towards even more efficient diesel cars? Without the added complexity and resourses of hybrid cars? Perhaps there's a bigger picture for you to look at?

And saying that adding complexity doesn't = improved efficiency is not the same as saying adding complexity could not boast efficiency, so don't twist it round to your liking.

How do you suppose to make diesel cars more efficient?? (without hybrization)

PHEV require very little fossil fuel to operate.

So why not just buy straight electric cars then?

And duel fuel cars have been around for yonks, including CNG and LPG. But they have problems with range and power as well. And a different subject.

Anyways, been somewhat interesting but I gotta go.

Range. Adding a tiny gas generator allows for extended range.

And mass production of bi-fuel cars can allow users to replace getting fuel from the pump and instead getting it from their own farm.

[cale]

Hows that? Hybrids still require fossil fuels to operate properly. And there are currently diesel powered cars that require less. How about more progress towards even more efficient diesel cars? Without the added complexity and resourses of hybrid cars? Perhaps there's a bigger picture for you to look at?

And saying that adding complexity doesn't = improved efficiency is not the same as saying adding complexity could not boast efficiency, so don't twist it round to your liking.

Notice how I said lessen? I'm not ignoring diesel technology, was anything I said relevant solely to gasoline powered vehicles? Hybrid technology is not limited to gasoline.

I'm not twisting anything.

I always have a little chuckle at trying to raise efficiency by increasing complexity.

Increased complexity comes with the territory, who has made the claim that the addition of moar will somehow increase efficiency...I didn't see that anywhere.

[jrobie79]

lol at a $45,000 piece of shit, that isnt even being made anymore

[Kershaw]

your argument is flawed. you imply that because it's not made anymore, it's a piece of shit.

and, production hasnt stopped, it's been put on pause for 5 weeks.

[jrobie79]

the market will never buy it, it wont be popular and at that price there are much better options. The only reason it has any 'significant' numbers sold is because GE purchased 12K of them for fleet service....the blind hand of the market exists and will force this to be shelved permanently....until GM starts building cars people want to buy, they will keep driving their company into the ground

and my logic wasnt that it was bad because it isnt being made, notice the comma, it separates two thoughts. Now if I had said it is a piece of shit BECAUSE it isnt even being made, I would respect your argument

[rwh11385]

your argument is flawed. you imply that because it's not made anymore, it's a piece of shit.

and, production hasnt stopped, it's been put on pause for 5 weeks.

+1.

lol at a $45,000 piece of shit, that isnt even being made anymore

It's $39145 MSRP, and effectively $31645 after tax credit. (Not $45k)

the market will never buy it, it wont be popular and at that price there are much better options. The only reason it has any 'significant' numbers sold is because GE purchased 12K of them for fleet service....the blind hand of the market exists and will force this to be shelved permanently....until GM starts building cars people want to buy, they will keep driving their company into the ground

If GE purchased 12K but 12K haven't even been sold yet?

GM has re-structured their entire design process to create cars that people do in fact want, and without needing 0% financing or super profit-cutting incentives anymore.

They posted their best year ever in company history in 2011.

"Sales were up 13.2 percent over last year, according to industry tracker TrueCar, and average transaction prices are up 3.7 percent. The company is also relying less on incentives to lure customers in and cutting the average rebate by 5.1 percent."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/16/general-motors-earnings-profit_n_1281600.html

Nothing you posted was correct at all, but slanted uninformed opinion.

[Wiglaf]

and speaking of increased complexity.. DOHV, VANOS, VTEC, ITB's, 6-speed.. there sure are a lot of extra moving parts going on here.

[Kershaw]

whine whine whine whine whine

ok.

and commas do not separate thoughts.

[rwh11385]

and speaking of increased complexity.. DOHV, VANOS, VTEC, ITB's, 6-speed.. there sure are a lot of extra moving parts going on here.

Okay Felix Wankel...

[priapism]

The all-electric Leaf is selling pretty damn well, relatively. I would think making an all-electric Volt wouldn't be that hard given the car's current architecture. It runs on electricity almost all the time, right? Ditch the ICE, gearbox and gearset, expand the battery, drop the price.