Well you have been doing it much more as of late. Still is just a little shocking each time. An after some of our Old debates and roundy rounds you surely can appreciate my surprise, each time you post shit like that.
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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt- -
Wow, that was a waste of 10 minutes. It really has nothing to do with the article, which makes me doubt you read the article.
Bill Whittle puts economics in a nice conservative package with a bow. The main problem with his and conservative arguments is that there is an assumption that everyone in this country has the same opportunity and that free market capitalism provides an equal playing field for everyone to be creative, productive and accumulate their own wealth and government intervention just gets in the way of the individual from doing such.
The truth is the opposite. Capitalism in its purest form is an unfair system and people do not have equal opportunity. So government regulates, provides welfare programs and creates a complicated tax system in an effort to bring balance to an already unfair system. Unfortunately, our government is not doing that as effectively as they should which is why the division in class is so great.sigpicComment
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I agree. Most common millionaires have earned it. Honestly I'm a bit more envious of them than the top guys where were just born into it.. because they have not just the money to do whatever they want, but also the satisfaction that came from earning it. They most likely won't be part of the rich person suicide statistic.
People in the very top who earned it are very rare. Bill Gates is like the poster child for this. But at what cost? Microsoft was ruthless to the competition, which often times was cheaper and a better product. To this day Microsoft dominates the OS world, despite cheaper and more solid alternatives. This elevates the cost of computers around the globe. I'm not trying to be all like "OMG SO EVIL" but it is an example of millions of people funneling money to 1 company. MS isn't creating wealth out of thin air like that fireball video is proclaiming, people spent it! Only banks create money.
And in respect to the article, where does all of this money go? MS could painlessly write a $1M bonus to every employee right down to the janitors, but of course it would never happen. Each person working there keeps milling away for the same rate regardless of success, it's only the people at the tippy top who benefit. Shouldn't at least the programmers and hard working major players see a significant % of the profits? What did the stockholders contribute to this profit? Damn near nothing in comparison, those should only be about as profitable as directly loaning money. THIS is where the problem is.sigpic
Originally posted by u3b3rg33kComment
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Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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Yeah because they can barely put food on the table....LMFAO.Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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this is all just funny to me. Knowing what the system is, go out and start your own business! Work your way up so you can take advantage of the system. Reap the benefits of hard work and dedication!
For those that just sit and bitch, expect to stay where you are!Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!
Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.Comment
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Really? Ok, Everone is different and born with different genetic advantages or disadvantages as well as environmental circumstances. Statistically what are the chances of a child with below average intelligence from a poor background with abusive parents becoming a millionaire or even getting out of poverty? Pretty low. As a social species, it is more advantageous from a basic survival standpoint for the individual to interact with and help the group, so that the group can help the individual. No one here survives without the help of many and to shit all over them defies acceptable social behavior. "Survival of the fittest" is not that of the fittest individual in the case of the human species, but the fittest group. If you do not want to help someone in need, you end up hurting yourself and the group as a whole.sigpicComment
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http://kstp.com/news/stories/s1830297.shtml
Yeah because they can barely put food on the table....LMFAO.
Now you're just being a twat, blowing off some real issues because CA can't stop some people from abusing the system.sigpic
Originally posted by u3b3rg33kComment
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Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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Dumbing down society to the level of the lowest intelligent member is what you're advocating. In order to do that you have to stop those that will be more successful to transfer some of that success to the person in need. In other words you're sabotaging your society.
A perfect example of this is what is happening in our schools. We hold back to smartest kids for the slower kids and force them all to learn at the same level, SABOTAGE! All in the name of fairness. And people wonder why our schools are failing.
A productive society allows those that are fast learners to advance at whatever speed they need to and by doing that you allow more effort put into helping the slower children. Not artificially destroying the producers and trying to make everything even for everyone. It will never be a level playing field, thank god, EVER.
It all comes down to personal responsibility. Are you going to be there and take kids away from irresponsible parents? Are you going to wait till they become hard core criminals before doing something about it? Are you going to intervene when the child decides to stop attending school? No, you just think you're going to pick up all the pieces and make things fair by making things lopsided to make them fair. Fucking everyone else over along the way.
Affirmative action is by definition discrimination. And so are all the minority programs that put minorities over white people. Screwing over one race to make things "fair" for another. And so is anything that puts whites over minorities.
What about that rich white kid that was beaten as a kid? Are you going to ignore him because his parents are rich? Or what about that rich white kid that's parents are rich and he's a very slow student and he was beaten. He gets ignored because his parents are rich and white?
Equal means equal regardless of how someone's life started. At some point a person has to make the choice to want a better life and take the steps needed to make that happen. You can't make people better by giving them free shit. And you can't make a slow student smart by making him/her go to school. They have to make the choice for themselves.
I know first hand.Last edited by joshh; 04-16-2011, 05:46 PM.Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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^like all these debates. They're fun, but we obviously will have to agree to disagree. I prefer a world where class division isn't so great. I think the article makes some good points that should be considered as to why they are. Take it however you like.sigpicComment
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^^^^^^^^^^
And that my friend is socialism and or communism, its been tried and it wont work, as you will eventuly run outta other peoples money to spend. Like Greece, Spain, Portugal, are now, The UK did in the 70's, and we are about to learn.,
Ok veggie guy, after reading you subsequent comments, and 3 hours over the last couple of days typing up a response. I was about to hit the submit button as it dawned on me that it was not the proper response for some one like you. So I deleted it all, now you will get this. ( will caveat, that the greed at the top of the CEO ladder is a bit disgusting and those involved should be ashamed of them selves)
1st and for most LIFE IS NOT FAIR, no amount of taxation and redistribution will make it that way. Someone out there will always be smarter, taller, have a faster car, a bigger truck, a bigger house, more land, a better job, a hotter wife, a bigger cock, more money, better kids, than you, along with a whole host of other shit that comes along in life.
America is like no other place in the world, in the last 240 years we have come form mostly subsistence farmers, and fur traders, to the undisputed leaders of the world. Nearly all advancements in Pharma and medical tech come from here. We do more scientific research, and development than the next 6 nations down the list combined. We produce 25% of global GDP, We give more money in foreign aid and charity than all other nations combined and ALL WITH ONLY 5% of the worlds population We grow a lions share of the words food, have lead the way in energy production, transit technology, Information transfer and processing, and the list goes on and on and on the world we live in would be no where close to what it is today if it was not for the USA and its capitalistic system.
I cant seem to stay on topic with this but its safe to say people like you disgust me. You enjoy your position of owning your own business and benefit the most from the free market. But yet take it totally for granted, that this system we have is why you are able to do that. You advocate for big govt socialism and boarder line Communism, in the name of fairness, just like Marx did. This social order has been tried the world over and has failed miserably each and every time, and also resulted in the senseless deaths of more than a 100 million people to try and make it sustainable.
Freedom to make your own way is what has made this country the power house that it is. The Constitution only guarantees that every man has the opportunity to make it, not guarantee you to make it. Yes some of it luck, some things may stack the deck in your favor like family wealth and so on. But look at Oprah, the google guys, Bill gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezoes, Bill Hewitt, Dave Packard, and millions more people that have made it form dirt floor poor, or humble beginnings to the ultimate wealth. Can you do that anywhere else in the world??? The short answer is NO, thats why we still have people flooding into this country every day (legally) JUST TO HAVE A CHANCE at what you already have and take for granted.
Your article advocates that those in socialist European countries, are far better than off than those here in the states. The please tell me how come we here in the US have a GDP of 14.6T with only 308.7 Million in total population (that works out to 47,123 dollars per capita) and the whole of the EU with 39% more in total population only manged a 11% larger GDP for 2010, with 501 million in total population and 16.28t in GDP (works out to 30,388 per capita). Really why are we here in the US so much more productive???? Cant be because we get to keep more of what we earn could it.......
You over look the obvious problem GOVT. The more programs we have to take care of the poor (or social duty as you have put it) LESS they will do for themselves, this is not a new concept either. We have conditioned entire generations and demographics that its ok to fail the govt will take care of you, this is totally and 100% wrong. Sure there needes to be a modest safety net (as I too think its the moral responsibility of an advances society to do for the truly disenfranchised). There always has been such a thing in this country, you know private donations and the churches once took care of those down luck till they could get back on their feet, until the govt has breed a cradle to grave entitlement class.
I suppose you have heard all this before, so I am just wasting my time here.
I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. - Ben Franklin
and a few from my sig line
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." Thomas Jefferson
Though the people support the government, the government should not support the people- Grover Cleveland
Your article makes me sick, its counter to everything this country was founded upon stands for, and everything that makes it what it is today. The entitlements you hold so dear and advocate for more of are whats going to bring this once prosperous country right down into the shitter.
I am done I have wasted way too much time trying to make this reply.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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really dude, you think our forefathers envisioned the CEO making 1000x or more of what the management and the rest make? Shit like this just plain didn't happen back when people made an honest living. This has nothing to do with "government entitlement programs". This is just plain the way things are going, the middle class is going out in a hurry.sigpic
Originally posted by u3b3rg33kComment
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Ummm Yes they did.
I suggest you look to Ben Franklin. A good lawyer in the late 1700's might earn 20-25 pounds a year. Mr Ben Franklin would earn 2000+ pounds in a year. Franklin moved form Boston to Philly with nothing but a few schillings in his pocket at 16 (IIRC) and though nothing but hard work and smart business sense became one the wealthiest men in America. He was a hero for this not a villein
Yeah the middle class is going away, but its not because of the evil rich people stealing the money (unless you are thinking of the Federal Reserve and Soros, the killer of nations). The middle class is going away because of govt intervention/miss use of the public trust and tax dollars and because of our own excess and stupidity. Oh and shit like this is one of the main reasons why the union movement came about 100 years ago. While I dont agree with what that movement has turned into, but this is a good argument as to why they are still important, but that is a different threadLast edited by mrsleeve; 04-17-2011, 12:10 AM.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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