Why do Americans still dislike Atheists?

[dirtysix]

Everyone has a moral code of some description.

[dirtysix]

I'm curious if by "here" you mean r3v, this generation, the US, western civ, or something else?

Here is New Zealand. One of the waffleswaffleswaffleswafflesrys mentioned in the BBC link earlier.

[Earendil]

Everyone has a moral code of some description.

I find that few people have ever thought about what that code may be, or been questioned on it. This leads to people thinking that all decisions are black and white, when there is usually a huge grey area that will make anyone hesitate unless they have given their own moral code considerable consideration.

To bring this back around a little bit to the original topic, Atheists (or the ones I've met) don't tend to right down what they believe to be right and wrong. People that subscribe to a particular faith already have their moral code written down for them.

It would be near impossible to hold an atheist accountable to his or her moral code because the only place it exists is in the head of the atheists, and there isn't generally any agreement that it won't change on a whim. Books such as the Bible are not going to change over night, so if you tell me that you use it to guide your choices in life, I have something to hold you accountable to.

Holding politicians accountable is very important. It may not CHANGE what the politician does. But leaders will be based with a bunch of decisions that they will never put in writing as "If I'm faced with problem A, I will act on is using plan 2". No one can do that. All a person can do is to puglic proclaim what set of guiding rules, morals and ethics, they use to make decisions.

I think what we haven't seen yet, is an Atheist run for office that could point to a written set of ethics and morals, even if written by the atheist. I wouldn't actually respect such an atheist quite a bit, because it would show that they had considered what it is they personally believe to be right and wrong, true and false.

Now, I may not vote for them based on how they want to apply their set of ethics though ;-)

[Sagaris]

You imply that people who don't believe in God are without "morals" or refuse to hold themselves to any ethical standard?

I said MANY, not all. I have certainly met religious people who are the scum of the earth, while I have some really nice friends who claim to be athiests. I am refering to the large number of people do not want to be held accountable for the way they live when they know it is wrong either morally by what their belief system has taught them, or ethically by what society would expect of them. One a person discredits the idea of a deity it is only natural that they believe that there is no accountability at the end of this life and that they are then justified in following whatever behavior and lifestyle they desire, guilt-free.

[Kershaw]

[z31maniac]

I said MANY, not all. I have certainly met religious people who are the scum of the earth, while I have some really nice friends who claim to be athiests. I am refering to the large number of people do not want to be held accountable for the way they live when they know it is wrong either morally by what their belief system has taught them, or ethically by what society would expect of them. One a person discredits the idea of a deity it is only natural that they believe that there is no accountability at the end of this life and that they are then justified in following whatever behavior and lifestyle they desire, guilt-free.

Out of curiosity, what are the lifestyle choices you are talking about?

[Sagaris]

Out of curiosity, what are the lifestyle choices you are talking about?

Homosexuality and substance abuse.

[dirtysix]

I find that few people have ever thought about what that code may be, or been questioned on it. This leads to people thinking that all decisions are black and white, when there is usually a huge grey area that will make anyone hesitate unless they have given their own moral code considerable consideration.

To bring this back around a little bit to the original topic, Atheists (or the ones I've met) don't tend to right down what they believe to be right and wrong. People that subscribe to a particular faith already have their moral code written down for them.

It would be near impossible to hold an atheist accountable to his or her moral code because the only place it exists is in the head of the atheists, and there isn't generally any agreement that it won't change on a whim. Books such as the Bible are not going to change over night, so if you tell me that you use it to guide your choices in life, I have something to hold you accountable to.

Holding politicians accountable is very important. It may not CHANGE what the politician does. But leaders will be based with a bunch of decisions that they will never put in writing as "If I'm faced with problem A, I will act on is using plan 2". No one can do that. All a person can do is to puglic proclaim what set of guiding rules, morals and ethics, they use to make decisions.

I think what we haven't seen yet, is an Atheist run for office that could point to a written set of ethics and morals, even if written by the atheist. I wouldn't actually respect such an atheist quite a bit, because it would show that they had considered what it is they personally believe to be right and wrong, true and false.

Now, I may not vote for them based on how they want to apply their set of ethics though ;-)

Everyone has a moral code, it's just it may not coincide with yours or mine or the next person. And shifting moral codes are part of our make up. Some people go from grays to black and white and vice versa. Some even go form black to white ie; the 'born again christian'.
And who's to say whether the prisoner who reformed through 'god' is any more or less enlightened than someone who 'thought' about it.

The thing is, at the end of the day if I was to wright out a set of moral beliefs, I would expect to find that I had more in common than not with a person of 'faith'.
But for some people of 'faith' they would see me a lesser person simply because I don't share in their faith in a higher power.

And then the shouting starts.

[dirtysix]

One a person discredits the idea of a deity it is only natural that they believe that there is no accountability at the end of this life and that they are then justified in following whatever behavior and lifestyle they desire, guilt-free.

Are you saying is that, in order to be a reasonable and decent member of society, one must believe in a deity?

[Jean]

A person can or can't have morals, doesn't matter if he/she is religious or not. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with someones morals or lack of.

Religion should really just stay at home, and not on tv/music/radio/schools/work etc.... imho.

It does more harm than good so often.

[Jean]

When I think about the Earth, solar system, life, and everything in it, there is just simply no way that it could happen and work so perfectly without a creator. People are entitled to their beliefs, however, I find that many people who claim to be "athiest" and "agnostic" label themselves as such as a way of justifying their choice to live how they want to live instead of follow some set of moral guidelines.

I am not here to argue over proof of what is right and wrong, homie don't play that, just stating my opinion.

There is simply no way you can "build a fire" or "make a child", it must be a higher power in charge yeah?

You state things as facts, and not as your opinion. I don't believe in organized religion, you know why? Because I am simply disgusted at the "churches" that are businesses, or "religious" people that do more harm than one who doesn't go to church on sundays.

Ha

[Sagaris]

Are you saying is that, in order to be a reasonable and decent member of society, one must believe in a deity?

Really? come on now man, I know that your reading comprehension level is better than that.

There is simply no way you can "build a fire" or "make a child", it must be a higher power in charge yeah?
Ha

Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made?
How exactly does the sun set?
How exactly does the posi-trac rear end on a Plymouth work?

-It just does.

[joshh]

The only difference between human scum religious and non-religious, is that one thinks they have a good excuse.

[dirtysix]

Really? come on now man, I know that your reading comprehension level is better than that.

It's just a question fella.

[Sagaris]

Sorry that I misunderstood your intentions of asking it. I am certainly a minority in this thread, and anticipated your question as some sort of bait to get an argument going.

No, I do not believe that you must believe in a diety to be a decent and honorable member of society.

On a different note, I would think that a church or religion is SUPPOSED to be an organization and a place where you can go to strive to become a better person, and that affiliation with such allows you the convenience to portray yourself as such, when in fact, this is exactly how corrupt people and leaders within churches gain peoples respect and deceive them. What I am getting at is that it is probably much harder to recognize when an athiest, or just simply someone unaffiliated with a church, is trying to better themselves.

So just because someone goes to church doesn't necessarily mean that they are bettering themselves, and just because someone does not go to church doesn't necessarily mean that they are NOT bettering themselves. I see this as one possible answer for the title of this thread