Why do Americans still dislike Atheists?

[Kershaw]

Pretty imaginative arn't you? ;)

im not the one believing in fairy tales. :ohsnap:

[ck_taft325is]

im not the one believing in fairy tales. :ohsnap:

Now you're just trying too hard, man

[Kershaw]

lolol, that's your response?

pwned.

[ck_taft325is]

lolol, that's your response?

pwned.

I rest my caseses.

[HarryPotter]

caseses? Is that spanish or something?

[Earendil]

im not the one believing in fairy tales. :ohsnap:

"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales."
— Albert Einstein

That's the direct response to you, the rest is for the entire thread, since they all relate to certain points that have been brought up here and there.


"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
— Albert Einstein

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure."
— Albert Einstein

"I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism, thus you don't have to waste your time in either attacking or defending."
— Isaac Asimov

"If life teaches anything at all it teaches that there are so many happy endings that the man who believes that there is no God needs his rationality called into serious question."
— Stephen King

[Bene]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE

I don't hate religious people, I just hate the power churches have over them.

[Bene]

So what happens if you guys are wrong, you die, and you face God's judgement. What would you do then? Just wondering if you have a backup plan.

if 90% of the world believed that not using artificial light would make is so you never die, would you freak out whenever you saw a candle or someone flipped a light switch?

[Sagaris]

[Dozyproductions]

"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales."
— Albert Einstein

That's the direct response to you, the rest is for the entire thread, since they all relate to certain points that have been brought up here and there.


"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
— Albert Einstein

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure."
— Albert Einstein

"I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism, thus you don't have to waste your time in either attacking or defending."
— Isaac Asimov

"If life teaches anything at all it teaches that there are so many happy endings that the man who believes that there is no God needs his rationality called into serious question."
— Stephen King

what are you trying to say with this? These are nice quotes and all but If you're on pro religious side of this thread, then you have just currently misused all those quotes.

[A Sucked Orange]

One a person discredits the idea of a deity it is only natural that they believe that there is no accountability at the end of this life and that they are then justified in following whatever behavior and lifestyle they desire, guilt-free.

Believing in a deity just because it's beneficial to social cohesion is an asinine argument for believing.

Also asinine is the fact that your morals which you contend to be self evidently righteous are based on your values, which I might find conflict with my values and therefore my morality. Your god may allow or even promote doing something that negatively affects anothers life in the same way a god-free person may do things that negatively affect yours. In this you are no more morally correct than anyone else.

[Ryann]

Christianity has a built in safe guard against God's judgement and the flames of hell, does it not? Wasn't Jesus sent to Earth to die for all our sins so that we might be forgiven? Where is a Christian's accountability??

Doesn't this open the door for Christians to behave as they'd like and push the reset button at the end of the day? Because they couldn't POSSIBLY live up to the example Jesus showed them over and over and over IN THEIR BIBLE about how to live.

This is my problem with Christianity, and why it seems that they generally do not represent the most "moral" and righteous population in my experience.

If you're just straight up righteous, and honest, and give a shit about people around you without fear of a deity's wrath or because you're in search of an eternal ticket, isn't that the real deal?

[vivalegreg]

If you're just straight up righteous, and honest, and give a shit about people around you without fear of a deity's wrath or because you're in search of an eternal ticket, isn't that the real deal?

This

[Cinnabar325is]

Christianity has a built in safe guard against God's judgement and the flames of hell, does it not? Wasn't Jesus sent to Earth to die for all our sins so that we might be forgiven?

Because they couldn't POSSIBLY live up to the example Jesus showed them over and over and over IN THEIR BIBLE about how to live.

The bottom line is that what is required of humanity is absolute perfection. And neither you nor I could ever attain that standard, not even close. And so you could think of our sin as making a great divide between us and God because he requires perfection. And you wouldn't want to Him to have any less a standard because where would He draw the line then? What sin would be acceptable and what sin wouldn't? It would become a very gray area. This way it's black and white and everyone knows exactly where they stand, which is initially far apart from God.

But He loves us and wants to be with us, so how does He solve the problem? It's harder than it sounds because although God is merciful, He also demands 100% justice. Again, would you want it any other way? The solution was to have Jesus, who was both completely man and God at the same time die for the entire world's sin. That way He satisfied God's demand for justice for mankind (Jesus only could take on ALL the world's sin b/c he was God and He could only die for it b/c he was man) and to be with God, all we must do is acknowledge what Jesus did for us and accept that gift. Simple and very difficult at the same time because people have so much trouble putting aside their pride and think they can do it on their own without Jesus. And that's impossible: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Where is a Christian's accountability?? Doesn't this open the door for Christians to behave as they'd like and push the reset button at the end of the day?

A Christian's accountability still exists. Here's why: IF you accept that there is a god, any god at all, not necessarily even Christian, you'd have to accept that he would be all knowing/omniscient. That's part of why that being is god. Same goes for the Christian God. So, if on the outside you claim to be a Christian and play the whole routine (go to church, tithe, .... you name it) and yet it's just a cover and you're the same old person on the inside, don't you think God knows that and will judge you accordingly? You may be able to fool the world around you but you cannot fool God. He knows quite well who is genuine.

Truly accepting the Christian message in your heart does not leave room for "pushing the reset button at the end of the day." However, I'm not denying that some "Christians" DO live that way which carries into the next thing you wrote.

This is my problem with Christianity, and why it seems that they generally do not represent the most "moral" and righteous population in my experience.

I must be honest here and say that I suspect this observation is given not without some bias. That being said, there are too many examples of Christians failing to act in any way that resembles the Christian model. If a person lives in such a stark contrast to Christianity, you must ask yourself if they're really a Christian? In Matthew 7:20, Jesus said "Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." Basically, you should be able to recognize a Christian by their actions (fruit).

However, that does NOT mean Christians don't screw up and still sin. That is why they became Christians in the first place, because they know they're sinners and need God's help. Perhaps you could say that's the big difference between Christians and non-Christians: both parties commit sin, but the Christians know when they've sinned and ask for God's forgiveness. At the same time they're working as best they can with God's assistance to improve themselves and live more like Jesus (and the Lord knows if each person is genuine in this regard or not).

One other thing, many and I'd like to say most Christians are truly upstanding people and can be recognized by their fruit. The unfortunate fact is that the actions of a few are used to categorize the entire bunch and it's often done very unfairly. Here's an example, not too long ago a group of American soldiers were charged with killing Afghan civilians just for fun and collected their fingers as trophies. Is THAT how you could categorize all American soldiers, by the actions of those few? No, because those men were not truly representing what America stands for even though they were "fighting" for America.

If you're just straight up righteous, and honest, and give a shit about people around you without fear of a deity's wrath or because you're in search of an eternal ticket, isn't that the real deal?

It is extremely cynical that you would credit all Christian good to the fact that they're in search "of an eternal ticket" or in "fear of God's wrath". I am not denying that Christians want to spend eternity in heaven and that they're afraid of God's wrath because it is very foolish to not be. But, I would credit most Christian good the fact that they understand their relation to God and they're trying to lead by example to please Him and bring more people to Him. And you're forgetting that you can want to please someone not only because you're afraid of them, but because you love them and want to make them happy. Those are two VERY distinct motivations, but both do apply in this situation.

[Earendil]

what are you trying to say with this? These are nice quotes and all but If you're on pro religious side of this thread, then you have just currently misused all those quotes.

Wait, what? First, are you so caught up in a "us vs them" thinking that you can't take the quotes for what they are? Second, I would never use one liner quotes as a sole argument for anything.

But, let me beak them down for you. I'm sure I won't do so as clearly and concisely as is possible. Perhaps you could alternatively take a step back, read them again, and apply them the way I posted them, as a comment on all the different aspects of the discussions in this thread, regardless of their position.

1. Fairy tales. I came across that quote by chance a few hours after reading your response. It amused me.

2. Blind Belief in Authority hurts the truth no matter what truth you are trying to defend or prove. If you blindly believe there is or isn't a God because mommy told you so, and you take that truth without question or contemplation, that is blind faith. A person with such an approach can not hope to claim they hold truth, and they certainly can't discuss it. I see this blindness hitting both sides of the fence in this thread.

3. Everything can be described scientifically. I tend to disagree, but let's take "Love" for example. Yes, it could be described scientifically, or at least the chemical/social pressure and results of "love". Just like the symphony, that takes all the joy out of it. People who believe in God and reject science as the anti God aren't thinking straight. Anyone who claims Science is the God, and everything that falls outside of scientific description is either extremely boring, or fooling themselves.

4. Rationalism to Atheism. I have read a few philosophical (as in, from philosophers, not some internet blog or forum post) that logically and soundly defends the position of God, and the position against a God. This has demonstrated to me that one can not reason ones way towards either conclusion with any assurance, but that each conclusion can be reasoned to. I'm aware of where Isaac reasoned his way to.

Stephen King... He was just awesome to quote after the scientists ;-)