Gas Taxes

[joshh]

wow the sheer amount of blissfull igornace on display in the thread is staggering


and we wonder why the country we live in is in the state its in.


The sooner you guys realize that ALL TAXES are treated as a FUCKING LINE ITEM ON THE BALANCE SHEET and ARE passed on to the final consumer as part of the cost of the good, and thats where the METRIC FUCK TON COMES FROM Not just what you PAY at the retail pump.

The sooner you guys get this concept the better. You raise the taxes on the oil companies by 10% today, the cost of gas WILL GO UP 10% the very next hour. Companies dont pay taxes WE DO!!!!!!!!!

They wont get it till they're confined to their tiny little shacks the government gave them to live in...while they're scraping together the meager food rations they were also given at the beginning of the month.
Sadly when the rest of us keep both Republicans and Democrats from total control of Americans, we wont get a pat on the back from these types.

[CorvallisBMW]

Regulations will be de facto flawed as long as the companies in which they are aimed against will have great influence over the politicians that make them. And politicians are in the business of getting themselves re-elected, not necessary improving the country or making a positive impact. But we are also hurt by the rise of pathos-driven argument versus logos. No one really cares to understand wtf is going on, but rather have fragments of truth compiled to create a biased message. If people had the attention span to learn the matters at hand, then maybe we could get somewhere.

This much we can agree on.

Also, I don't see why you guys hate granola so much. Since when is granola-eating a pejorative? I love that shit in my yogurt.

[gwb72tii]

So basically what you're saying is... Herbivore is right. McDonalds doesn't pay any price at all for the 'pollution' they create, they simply pass it on to the consumers, health care industry, gov't, etc. I think what he was trying to get at is that the current market, as it sits, doesn't require any kind of accountability for most of the harmful side effects of whatever is produced. BP had to pay big bucks for the gulf oil spill cleanup, but they don't pay a dime when acid rain falls on a forest. If McDonalds or BP had to pay a fair market price for the value of their 'pollution', the products they sell would have to be more expensive since the company would have to factor in the side effects, instead of passing the costs down the line to the consumers.

no, not really. what i was trying to say is that the cost of a big mac reflects all costs, both raw material and helath. the raw material is pretty obvious. the health less so. the health costs are borne by all of us and are reflected in health premiums we all pay. fat people get sick more and cost more health wise. you pay for that as i do as macdonalds does. its part of the cost of the big mac.
the only fair way to cover the cost is to have the people that consume shit like a big mac pay higher health care premiums

you know, personal responsibility

[Farbin Kaiber]

Yeah, I eat granola, but I also kill living animal beings in my yard and cook them over open, unfilteted wood fueled fire from some potential old growth trees I hacked to shit. Murder and pollution baybee. And those animals were producing methane at a metric ass ton volume.

[CorvallisBMW]

Yeah, I eat granola, but I also kill living animal beings in my yard and cook them over open, unfilteted wood fueled fire from some potential old growth trees I hacked to shit. Murder and pollution baybee. And those animals were producing methane at a metric ass ton volume.

Is that greater than, equal to or less than a metric fuck ton?

[Farbin Kaiber]

I think it's approximately 27.5% less than a MFT. I think there is a mild variance due to elevation.

[rwh11385]

This much we can agree on.

Also, I don't see why you guys hate granola so much. Since when is granola-eating a pejorative? I love that shit in my yogurt.

I guess I should include other indicators besides just granola. It alone is not enough to classify hippiedom.

Do you own Birkenstocks?
Are you a regular at Whole Foods?
Do you play hacky-sack?
Are you on Green Peace's mailing list?


In other but possibly related news: The Volt isn't being told to "Green" people or hippies or those who want to save using less gas because of the prices. It's mostly techie people who like innovation. Just like Prius's were for stuck up people who wanted to act holier than thou, not necessary all just environmentalists.

[CorvallisBMW]

I guess I should include other indicators besides just granola. It alone is not enough to classify hippiedom.

Do you own Birkenstocks?
Are you a regular at Whole Foods?
Do you play hacky-sack?
Are you on Green Peace's mailing list?


In other but possibly related news: The Volt isn't being told to "Green" people or hippies or those who want to save using less gas because of the prices. It's mostly techie people who like innovation. Just like Prius's were for stuck up people who wanted to act holier than thou, not necessary all just environmentalists.

Or... the prius and volt are sold to those who simply want to get excellent gas mileage. I've met lots of prius owners, never once have I met one with any kind of attitude. To say that buyers of a Volt are techie and smart, but buyers of a Prius are stuck up hippies, is a pretty insane level of judgmentalism. For all intents and purposes, the cars are the same. 90% of buyers pay attention only to the MPG number on the window sticker (and the price, where the prius undercuts the volt by nearly $15K)

Oh and I don't qualify for any of the above hippie classifiers, guess I fail the hippie test :(

[rwh11385]

you know, personal responsibility

But how are Americans going to become personal responsible if there are not new regulations to ensure that they are?

[/sarcasm]

[rwh11385]

Or... the prius and volt are sold to those who simply want to get excellent gas mileage. I've met lots of prius owners, never once have I met one with any kind of attitude. To say that buyers of a Volt are techie and smart, but buyers of a Prius are stuck up hippies, is a pretty insane level of judgmentalism. For all intents and purposes, the cars are the same. 90% of buyers pay attention only to the MPG number on the window sticker (and the price, where the prius undercuts the volt by nearly $15K)

Oh and I don't qualify for any of the above hippie classifiers, guess I fail the hippie test :(

Prius is a gas/electric hybrid and Volt is an extended-range EV. (Granted, the new plug-in Prius out next spring and Volt will be very similar, but not the current)

Plus $25-30K for current Prius and $33.5K for Volt after rebate are not far apart at all.

I know you can't sense hippie smugness because of the air there and all the granola, but Prius drivers seem to think they are saving the world.

[CorvallisBMW]

You're an idiot, Prius is a gas/electric hybrid and Volt is an extended-range EV. (Granted, the new plug-in Prius out next spring and Volt will be very similar, but not the current Prius - at all)

Plus $25-30K for current Prius and $33.5K for Volt after rebate are not far apart at all.

I know you can't sense hippie smugness because of the air there and all the granola, but Prius drivers seem to think they are saving the world.

Like I said, gas/electric hybrid vs plug-in hybrid doesn't matter to most car buyers. They don't care about the nuts and bolts of their cars, they just want MPG. And for that reason, those cars are, for all intents and purposes, the same. Also you can't compare the price of a volt with tax credit vs a prius without. It gets one too :)

How can you say that prius drivers "seem to think they are saving the world" but not say EXACTLY the same thing about volt drivers? Both cars are different means to the SAME end, which means the motives of their drivers are the same as well. A driver may pick one over the other after comparing them side-by-side and evaluating their needs, but in the end, the whole purpose of both cars is to "save the world". It's not like they were out searching for a 1-ton duelly and spotted the volt. 99% of drivers for one are cross-shopping both, guaranteed.

[rwh11385]

Like I said, gas/electric hybrid vs plug-in hybrid doesn't matter to most car buyers. They don't care about the nuts and bolts of their cars, they just want MPG. And for that reason, those cars are, for all intents and purposes, the same. Also you can't compare the price of a volt with tax credit vs a prius without. It gets one too :)

How can you say that prius drivers "seem to think they are saving the world" but not say EXACTLY the same thing about volt drivers? Both cars are different means to the SAME end, which means the motives of their drivers are the same as well. A driver may pick one over the other after comparing them side-by-side and evaluating their needs, but in the end, the whole purpose of both cars is to "save the world". It's not like they were out searching for a 1-ton duelly and spotted the volt. 99% of drivers for one are cross-shopping both, guaranteed.

Like I've said, you're an idiot / clueless. By that "logic", the Cruze/Fiesta are the same as Volt and Prius and also the same as the Leaf or even VW TDI, but all have very different technologies.

Really? Ya sure? No it doesn't. (again, idiot)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

http://www.hybridcars.com/federal-incentives.html

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=169884,00.html

Only 2011 [regular] Hybrids with credits: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/articl...223736,00.html

The expected buyer / early adopter profile for the Volt was environmentalists and green people, but they were surprised to find majority of people buying it for the technology. (technology that you don't seem to comprehend the difference between it and a conventional hybrid, like you don't understand tax credits on priuses are expired...)

http://gm-volt.com/2011/06/16/electric-vehicle-manufacturers-to-early-adopters-drivers-needed/

The top reasons given for choosing the Volt have been reducing dependency on foreign oil, the car is made in America, it has a range extender, and it is technologically innovative.

Interestingly, Landy said a rather high 86 percent did not own a GM vehicle previously. Among the trade-in vehicles have been BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus.

Landy cited a number of common characteristics for first-generation Volt consumers.

They are:
• People who others come to for advice about cars and electronics.
• Typically are the first to have the latest technology.
• Willing to try something new and unproven when making a big purchase.
• Read about technology advancements and new product introductions nearly every day.

[CorvallisBMW]

The technology on the prius and the volt are identical. The only difference is that the volt has a plug that you can use to charge the battery independent of the on-board motor. And even then it only goes 60-70 miles. They're both hybrids, they both use electric and gasoline motors to power the wheels. In fact GM licensed a large part of the technology from Toyota. Once the 2012 extended-range prius is released, they will be exactly the same. Again, for you to categorize the drivers of the prius as yuppie hippies and volts as tech-conscious enthusiasts is stupid. That's like saying 325i drivers are all pro racers and 325e drivers are all environmentalists

Face it, you just harbor intolerance towards prius drivers because of the sweeping generalizations you make up in your head. Reality is a far cry away from the grey matter floating around behind your eyes.

Oh and the cruze and fiesta get ~10mpg less around town, cost 50% as much and are not hybrids, so they're not even in the same ballpark.

[rwh11385]

The technology on the prius and the volt are identical. The only difference is that the volt has a plug that you can use to charge the battery independent of the on-board motor. And even then it only goes 60-70 miles. They're both hybrids, they both use electric and gasoline motors to power the wheels. In fact GM licensed a large part of the technology from Toyota. Once the 2012 extended-range prius is released, they will be exactly the same. Again, for you to categorize the drivers of the prius as yuppie hippies and volts as tech-conscious enthusiasts is stupid. That's like saying 325i drivers are all pro racers and 325e drivers are all environmentalists

Face it, you just harbor intolerance towards prius drivers because of the sweeping generalizations you make up in your head. Reality is a far cry away from the grey matter floating around behind your eyes.

Oh and the cruze and fiesta get ~10mpg less around town, cost 50% as much and are not hybrids, so they're not even in the same ballpark.

Reality is a far cry from what you type because you haven't ever cared to be informed. Maybe that slacker hippiedom is why you failed out of mechanical?

60-70 miles? Where are you getting the numbers? Out of thin air / bong smoke? It's 35 on all-electric with a single charge.

In majority of situations, the Volt DOES NOT use the generator to power the wheels. (in very small amount of cases, it will actually given load demands and power levels, but it is not supposed to). The ICE's purpose is to recharge the batteries, not vehicle locomotion.

Face it, the reason you say the things you do is out of pure and utter ignorance.

And Volt can use practically zero gas if driven within its range and charged, whereas current Prius HAS to use gas. Cruze Eco or Fiesta can get within 8 mpg of Prius on the highway. Saying that the Volt and Prius are the same but Cruze and Prius are nowhere close is ridiculous.

[Farbin Kaiber]

^ What's with heeter always showing up with proof to back his claims?