Should getting a driver's licence be tied to completing HS?

[NKRoberts]

No, I would just like to see actual driver training for young people.

The biggest thing everyone is worried about is parallel parking. When we should be teaching how the car feels at the limit, accident avoidance, emergency driving in wet/less than ideal conditions, etc.

This drive around the block at 25mph and parallel park in an empty parking lot is a fucking joke.

But you have to change the culture here, people don't take driving a car as the responsibility that it is. Like D said, you are in control of two ton vehicle with the potential to cause injury, property damage and death.

I agree. I want a more challenging test. I know some kids from HS that graduated but i dont want driving near me. When I was 16 i went to a drivers edge course (it was free and we got to driver RX-7s while race car drivers told us what to do) and it was amazing how it some fairly common tense car driving situations the other kids had no clue what to do. It has nothing to do with a HS diploma.
One of the "challenges" was that the road was slick, you would drive in a circle and at any time the instructor would pull the ebrake enough to lose control and you would have to steer out of it. This one girl, when the ebrake was pulled, covered her face with her hands and just let the car do whatever. Being out in a big ass parking lot it was funny to see the car spin about but on a normal road there would be a lot of damage.

[CorvallisBMW]

how the fuck does having a diploma equate to your ability to operate a car in a safe or efficient manner???

Because if you're you're too dumb to learn your multiplication tables, you're too dumb to drive a 5000lb death missile.

I know off the top of my head 4 guys that never finished high school and each earn more money than you, me and Darrin combined by a very large margin every year. All of which require them them own and operate a truck for their job.

That's nice. If they're so smart, why didn't they finish school?

yeah we are taking care of those degenerates arent we????? You would be willing to keep people like that from earning a living by taking or denying them the ability to drive based on high school. High school has nothing to do with driving, this is just more govt bs to try and influence peoples lives to do what they want you too..

I didn't know that trying to encourage kids to get an education and finish HS qualified as "govt bs to try and influence peoples lives to do what they want you too". Getting an education and finishing HS are GOOD THINGS, and you seem to treat it as not that important.

Education is the single most important thing you can get during your life, it is a factor in every single day of the rest of your life. If we can find ways of encouraging kids to finish HS it will benefit the entire country. You pointed out several people who, despite not completing school, are doing well for themselves. Good for them. But they are the small minority. Most HS dropouts don't ever amount to anything. What manager would ever hire a kid who can't even finish the most basic of education?

I'm still not saying this is a good or bad idea, but I take real issue with the attitude that finishing school isn't highly important. It's the degeneration of the value of education that makes kids drop out in the first place; they don't see it as worthwhile or valuable. Continuing to lessen it's importance through rhetoric will only make the problem worse. HS needs to be viewed as more important, not less.

Perhaps a more amicable bill would be to allow only those 15-17 y.o. who are currently enrolled in school to get their permits/licences. Anyone who is not in school must wait until they are 18, and if you already have a licence but drop out, it is suspended.

[imsotyerred]

To the title: No. but intensive driving training, not just a passer-by education, should be mandatory

[mrsleeve]

Because if you're you're too dumb to learn your multiplication tables, you're too dumb to drive a 5000lb death missile.

Oh really, how elitist of you, funny thing is you are trying to tie one definition (YOURS) of intelligence, to a totally unrelated ability.

That's nice. If they're so smart, why didn't they finish school?

I never said they were smart (especially by your definition) But they went forth into the world. Started at the very bottom, learned a trade or 2, or 3, have a very broad skill set, that is very high in demand and are well compensated for this. They are very smart, in ways that society does not really quantify as intelligent any more, thanks to people like you.

I didn't know that trying to encourage kids to get an education and finish HS qualified as "govt bs to try and influence peoples lives to do what they want you too". Getting an education and finishing HS are GOOD THINGS, and you seem to treat it as not that important.

Yeah getting though HS is an important mile stone in life. But by no means should you be denied the abilty to make your own way in life because you chose a alternate path. You are of the modern mentality that College is the only way to make your way in life, and really its not. Thats what you are not understanding, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat so to speak. And that is the American way, this law you support is counter to that very core belief that made this country what it is.

Education is the single most important thing you can get during your life, it is a factor in every single day of the rest of your life. If we can find ways of encouraging kids to finish HS it will benefit the entire country. You pointed out several people who, despite not completing school, are doing well for themselves. Good for them. But they are the small minority. Most HS dropouts don't ever amount to anything. What manager would ever hire a kid who can't even finish the most basic of education?

I'm still not saying this is a good or bad idea, but I take real issue with the attitude that finishing school isn't highly important. It's the degeneration of the value of education that makes kids drop out in the first place; they don't see it as worthwhile or valuable. Continuing to lessen it's importance through rhetoric will only make the problem worse. HS needs to be viewed as more important, not less.

Yes your right, but there are many types of education, and many ways to go about getting it, even you aught to see that??? Just because someone does not do it the same way you did it, or the way society says is the "right way" means they should be denied the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness, and access to the privileges that the rest of society is afforded to meet those goals. Solely based on the their choice of how they go about it????

More do as I say, because I say so from the govt and its brain washed masses, thanks to the govts involvement en-masse with the education of the youth at all levels in this country for the last 40 years.

By your definations I must be a step above the guy that wears a crash helmet to keep from hurting himself and drools on him self, right?? On the sole basis that I barely made it outta high school with satisfactory marks to be able to walk at graduation with my class. I should be denied a drivers license too right, because since I am so stupid I there is no way I could have been driving on public roads since I was 13 ( Farm License) with NO accidents and only 2 moving violation in the last 17 years, just lucky right. Should I have my state and federal endorsed licenses to transport radioactive materials in that truck taken away too??? Should I have my TWIC card revoked too ( transportation workers identification credentials) so I can go unescorted in ports, refineries, rail yards and many other places. How about all my pipeline operator certs to allow me unescorted access to many of the nations pipeline facilities??? Or take away my CCW permits After all I am so dumb, how can I be trusted with such great responsibilities, and to have a gun with me too boot???

My last 2 years of HS were very rough from a personal level and school took a back seat to taking care of my dying father and trying to keep a roof over my own head, food in my belly and gas in my tanks.

Grow the fuck up dude.

[CorvallisBMW]

^ I'm not saying you're dumb, or stupid, or any of those things. Go back and read my post again, I think you'll see that. Of course not everyone can, or should, attend college. There are lots of options out there (as there should be) because everyone is different and everyone has their own ideas of what they would like to do/be/accomplish in life. I am not of the mentality that 'everyone must attend college', I never even implied that. But to say that tying a driver's license to HS graduation is a violation of someone's "right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness" is ridiculous. None of those things are dependent on having a DL. Come on Besides, if they want a DL so bad they can always go test for their GED.

There is a big difference between taking different paths in life and being a bum HS drop-out. Unlike some, I don't believe the gov't is pure evil and out to manipulate us at every turn in to becoming little lemmings. If the gov't wants to encourage kids to get a basic education, more power to them. When the citizens are educated, the entire country benefits.

[mrsleeve]

^ I'm not saying you're dumb, or stupid, or any of those things. Go back and read my post again, I think you'll see that. Of course not everyone can, or should, attend college. There are lots of options out there (as there should be) because everyone is different and everyone has their own ideas of what they would like to do/be/accomplish in life. I am not of the mentality that 'everyone must attend college', I never even implied that. But to say that tying a driver's license to HS graduation is a violation of someone's "right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness" is ridiculous. None of those things are dependent on having a DL. Come on Besides, if they want a DL so bad they can always go test for their GED.

DURRRR You still are not getting it at all are you. TO get a DL you have to demonstrate a reasonable ability to operate the thing in a safe and prudent manner, coupled with a reasonable understanding of the laws governing how you can operate that car. This is NOT SYNONYMOUS WITH GETTING A FUCKING DIPLOMA, you can do one with out the other.

While yes driving is a privilege I totally agree with that, you lose that privilege for fucking up and demonstrating shitty judgement while doing it, not quitting school.

Yes denying someone a DL for something other than bad judgment making while driving hinders their ability to attain life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Again because one HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER.

There is a big difference between taking different paths in life and being a bum HS drop-out. Unlike some, I don't believe the gov't is pure evil and out to manipulate us at every turn in to becoming little lemmings. If the gov't wants to encourage kids to get a basic education, more power to them. When the citizens are educated, the entire country benefits.

How so, you dont have to have a formal education to be intelligent, nor a productive member of society. This is what you dont understand, just becasue this is how you did it does not mean its the only way. Also sure it makes it much much easier, what business is it of yours is someone wants to go about it the hard way.

While I can somewhat agree with the last part of that to a point. Its the law of unintended consequences, and just look at the quality of education has gone to shit since the govt has taken it over in the 70's. That and just look at the shit that is taught or well not taught anymore to serve a particular agenda, you my friend are a fine example of this.

[bimmershark]

i had my license 2 weeks after turning 16 have had only 1 bad accident since then and that was a result of working a split double on a friday (after already putting in 50 hours from mon-thurs) i was 19 driving home at 4:30 in the morning fell asleep at the wheel and hit a tree...i got lucky no one else was on the road lesson def learned from that..

i didnt finish school , i quit at 17 moved to florida and got my ged..school wasnt hard i just couldnt focus i was wanting to be at work making money (i still got decent grades tho?)

[Varinn]

I'd be voting against this one, as much as I want more incentive and more people to have their fucking licenses (like my girlfriend, as an example) you can't tie it in like that. I dropped out in grade 11, I hated school and had a full time job. 3 years later I had graduated from my courses in college top of my class and I've gone back multiple times for more and more courses as well as upgrades and business sector courses. High school doesn't REALLY mean shit to the majority of people

[u3b3rg33k]

Some High School dropouts aren't dropouts because they are necessarily dumb, it's because they haven't found what they like yet. Hence, trade schools. I know plenty of dropouts that have made serious bank..legally of course...they just needed to find what they liked doing.

That being said, it should undoubtedly be harder to obtain a license.

I'd love it if the US had drivers ed that was half as useful as the Finnish driver's ed.

One of the few things I agree with you about.
Mandatory theory and practical tests...you don't pass you don't get a license. Insurance would drop out the bottom and the number of accidents would be much lower.



I do however believe driving is a privilege, not a right. Finishing High School is a choice left to the parents and the child.

NO it should not be tied to your HS diploma


How else do you expect those that may drop out (most do it because they are working and think the work is more important, I was nearly one of these guys) to make a living for them selves ????

more stupid ideas form our govts

I'm with stupid, and, uh, stupid. ;)

I know a few people that are very productive that never finished HS. They would NOT be productive at all if they couldn't drive. They would probably be burdens to society if they weren't allowed to drive...

[mrsleeve]

^

awwwwwwwwww love you too :)

[e30e]

The law should provide a statement saying it only affects future drop outs. If children exiting 8th grade going into high school know that if they drop out they can't get a license its just another incentive to stay.

Drop out rates are not really an issue here, whats the statistic; 10%. Big deal, 20% of all high school kids are dipshits anyways. Most and understand MOST of current drops from last 20 years don't make up a big enough part the population make this proposed law effective. For every successful drop out there's probably 10 who still make less than 10 dollars an hour working in fast food and living off government hand outs.

The issue should be how it should be mandatory that students take defensive driving courses in high school before parents put them in 4000 lb missiles. But I'm sure many of the "gov't shouldn't be in our life" crowd would throw there arms up in the air saying the government shouldn't decide what our kids learn (even though they do).

[Bene]

Why this law would not only be completely unrelated to driver safety, but totally backwards in terms of keep our roads safe. All summed up in one simple graph:

National Graduation Rates by Race, Ethnicity, and Disability



/thread

[leothedrummer]

That's nice. If they're so smart, why didn't they finish school?

I understand that in the USA, doing a trade not considered to be a good thing, yeah? I know plenty of people that dropped out school to do a trade that are a hell of a lot smarter than plenty of people I know who stayed through school right to the end. But that might just be a cultural thing, because you can do pretty well here as a tradie if you play your cards right.

Touching back on the high school thing, I also know plenty of people that have graduated high school that don't have a drivers license and even more that do, but really shouldn't....