Man robs bank to receive medical care

[CorvallisBMW]

We already pay for everyone's healthcare.

Hospitals provide HUNDRED's of BILLION's in free care each year that is then passed on to us in the form of $5 each aspirins and $10 pairs of latex gloves for insurance claims and such.

So we are providing care for the poor already, but in the most ineffecient way possible, instead of figuring out a way to extend coverage while controlling costs.

Agreed 100%

Is this really your version of the free market?
Laughable.

No idea what you're talking about, tax write-offs are totally free market!

/sarcasm

No input on opening up the pool to the country? I am curious why it doesn't get mentioned more?

One of the biggest arguments I've heard against this is the possibility of a so-called 'race to the bottom' where all the HMOs relocate to the state the the most lax laws, lowest taxes, etc. The whole country would then be subject to the lowest-common-denominator as it were.

Of course because it's a perfectly logical thing to do as suppose, go to a fucking doctor. Most doctors will try to help you out if you are totally strapped...specially if they see you are making a fucking effort to pay them what you can.
And your problem is you think this guy is a "poor guy can't catch a break' case...which for people like you are everyone. Thus the real problem. Personal responsibility...look it up.

When was the last time you discussed billing WITH A DOCTOR? Never, that's when. THe doctor doesn't have any control over your bills, neither does anyone at the hospital. It's all controlled by a giant office building somewhere in the midwest. You can't 'negotiate' with your doctor

Yeah because people know they can get away with it. Free care at the ER and they know nor even try to make an effort to take responsibility for their bill. The problem is so much the system as it is those that believe heavily in entitlements. And those that refuse to work.

You think the ER is "free"?!?!?! You're truly the biggest idiot I've ever met. I guess credit cards are free money too, since you don't have to pay the bill when it comes. Same with your car payment, mortgage, etc. All of them are just bills. If you can ignore a $50K bill from the hospital, it must be a cake-walk to ignore a $10K bill from Amex!

[joshh]

When was the last time you discussed billing WITH A DOCTOR? Never, that's when. THe doctor doesn't have any control over your bills, neither does anyone at the hospital. It's all controlled by a giant office building somewhere in the midwest. You can't 'negotiate' with your doctor



You think the ER is "free"?!?!?! You're truly the biggest idiot I've ever met. I guess credit cards are free money too, since you don't have to pay the bill when it comes. Same with your car payment, mortgage, etc. All of them are just bills. If you can ignore a $50K bill from the hospital, it must be a cake-walk to ignore a $10K bill from Amex!

You're completely missing the point, conveniently. YOU pick your doctor. If people actually took responsibility for their bills or even did what they could prices wouldn't be where they are. I.E. ER's wouldn't be charging other people (that actually pay for their service) 7 fucking dollars for a Q-tip. And by picking the doctor (the one willing to help you out because he has a fucking heart and knows you're doing what you can to pay the bill) more than likely it's going to be a smaller doctors office.

The ER is free for those who want it to be. Yes it absolutely is. They can take a car from you, or a house....however they can't refuse you service at the ER no matter how much you owe.
Bankruptcy is just a half step away...they know if you can't even afford to pay for a bankruptcy, it's not worth coming after you for the bill, clearly.

[CorvallisBMW]

The ER is free for those who want it to be. Yes it absolutely is.

Checkmate.

Plz leave now, you're done.

[pureaudio]

When was the last time you discussed billing WITH A DOCTOR? Never, that's when. THe doctor doesn't have any control over your bills, neither does anyone at the hospital. It's all controlled by a giant office building somewhere in the midwest. You can't 'negotiate' with your doctor

Each and every one of my clients in the healthcare industry will renegotiate your bill if you have a reason (ability to pay, unhappy with service), I've personally done it before. All of these doctors even have official policies about an upfront, flat percentage off your bill if you do not have insurance but still need care.

Your Doctor has every bit of control over your bill, it is their practice. What your confusing this with is pre-negotiated amounts for service between the insurance company and the Doctor. They can only bill for so much as the insurance company is only going to pay what they are contracted to do so. So while yeah a Doctor can only charge so much, they can charge as little as they want.

You think the ER is "free"?!?!?! You're truly the biggest idiot I've ever met. I guess credit cards are free money too, since you don't have to pay the bill when it comes. Same with your car payment, mortgage, etc. All of them are just bills. If you can ignore a $50K bill from the hospital, it must be a cake-walk to ignore a $10K bill from Amex!

Pretty sure it was easy to deduce he meant people treat the ER as "free" because they have no plans to pay anyways, so might as well go to what they think will get them the best service in the shortest amount of time.

[herbivor]

Checkmate.

Plz leave now, you're done.

:nice:

[ck_taft325is]

^It needs to be the exact opposite, you are responsible for routine, normal care. And there is a policy that protects you against large losses.

All the way back in 2005 a friend of mine broke his wrist in a motorcycle crash, his total bill had he not had insurance would have been $13k! For a broken wrist!

Oh but since we can't eat plastic (since everything is package in it), no coverage. So do we start excluding people for riding motorcycles? Skydiving? Driving?

You could break your wrist walking out to your car today, do all you guys have $15-20k in the bank to cover that?


You guys need to quit sticking ardently to the policy line and realize we've got a serious problem on our hands, and both sides are too busy grandstanding and going to the extreme to make a false point.

Oh fuck have my babies or something.

[mrsleeve]

If the govt is not trying to make our HC more expensive and not trying to control it and how its provided

why was this guy told he has to charge more for his services

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/05/07/us-usa-newyork-idUSTRE5467KE20090507

[CorvallisBMW]

If the govt is not trying to make our HC more expensive and not trying to control it and how its provided

why was this guy told he has to charge more for his services

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...5467KE20090507

You need the read the whole article:

"Troy Oechsner, deputy superintendent of the state insurance department, said the rules were designed to protect consumers.

"Our concern is ... making sure that consumers can rely on any promises made to them and that they will get the services they paid for when they need them," he said.

New York State Assemblyman Adam Clayton Powell said on Thursday he would present a bill to exempt primary health care providers from the insurance regulations in question.

"This is something he's doing to give back, as a service to the community in tough times," Powell said of Muney. "I think any common person would say this is a good thing, however, we know the health insurance companies are going to fight it.""

The reason the law was passed was to avoid the so-called 'free healthcare' you hate so much. If every doctor visit were free, people would go there for a scrape on their elbow (or so I've heard you and other conservatives argue). The law was passed to prevent a problem that you yourself have advocated for, and now you're against it? (for the record, the idea that people will go to the doctor for insignificant treatment if it's "free" is fucking ridiculous. You still have to make an appointment, wait, take time off work, drive there, etc. It's not "free" and people will still go to the doctor for real problems, whether it's $0 or $50)

[CorvallisBMW]

Who here works in business/industry? Probably 90% of us. We all know that within industry, one of the best ways to make improvements in your process, capabilities, mfg methods, cost reduction, etc is to follow 'best practices'. There are hundreds of journals and magazines devoted to just this one topic, all related to specific industries. My last job was an engr for industrial refrigeration and we had all kinds of industry events, conferences, publications and more devoted to developing and sharing best practices. It's a fantastic way to research and find out what people are doing and apply those ideas to your own business to save money/time/whatever. Every single business in every single industry does this, it's regarded at business norm.

So why is it that best practices are shunned when it comes to health care? There are 27 other modern democracies in this world, all of which spend far less $ than us and most of which get far better results. We're at the bottom of the barrel. So why, when anyone suggests we look to other countries for solutions, do many people flip shit? We have 27 real-world case studies of best practices that prove, without a doubt, there are ways of providing better and more effective care with less $. Why is it heresy to suggest we use the lessons they've learned to improve our own system? Why do people use best practices at their job but refuse to do the same in political or governmental policy?

[mrsleeve]

Because govt bureaucracy is not BEST PRACTICES, it gets in the way, hinders productivity, drives up costs, and in general causes more issues than it solves. I see this shit every single fucking day of my life, every job I go to.

You need the read the whole article:

"Troy Oechsner, deputy superintendent of the state insurance department, said the rules were designed to protect consumers.

"Our concern is ... making sure that consumers can rely on any promises made to them and that they will get the services they paid for when they need them," he said.

New York State Assemblyman Adam Clayton Powell said on Thursday he would present a bill to exempt primary health care providers from the insurance regulations in question.

"This is something he's doing to give back, as a service to the community in tough times," Powell said of Muney. "I think any common person would say this is a good thing, however, we know the health insurance companies are going to fight it.""

A PRIAVTE DOCTOR was offering services for a given price. I am sure he did not just pull that number outta his ass, I am sure that he had it figured to where all his associated costs were covered and a small profit

But the govt didnt like the fact that he was able to provide a a better service for cheaper there by undermining its position that it they must take even more control over it.

Again the govt telling a private business how to run its affairs, and proof that the free markets can work to provide a working solution's

[dirtysix]

Excuse me for a minute, but I'm gunna burst the bubble on publicly funded healthcare.
It is not the magic bullet some people here think it is.
Every government struggles to make it work. There is never enough money or resources and the doctors and nurses are overworked.
The proof of this, is that both my wife and I have private medical insurance and have, in the past, used it to bypass the public system.
Why? Partly because we can afford to and partly because it takes some pressure (albeit a small amount) off the public system.

This isn't to say that your system is better or not. It is impossible to say.
I think I'll keep this one though because regardless of what some might think, it is possible to drive some efficiencies through centralised, non profit driven control.

[87e30]

My biggest problem is where does gov't health care lead us to?

Maybe now it will work, or in 20 years it will work. But what if we hit another large depression, deplete the accounts, and end up in a horrible situation. We can't take away the free care, yet the amount going in will fall significantly. Then what? More problems...

[Raxe]

I <3 Canada.

+1

Our system works fairly well from what I've experienced. Of course there's the odd horror story, but in reality for every nightmare you hear about there's a thousand cases that went just fine.

[Kershaw]

man, corvallis is just on top of this thread. nice job man.

If it was not for govt meddling in the HC system to begin with to provide care for the old and disenfranchised, at below cost to preform the services we would not be in the state we are in now.

dude! you are so right! why didnt i think of this before! if we were to just remove all the people that need care from the health care system, imagine how far costs would drop!

that is just brilliant!

[87e30]

Lol at this thread. B&W perspectives as always.