Global Warming is over.

[rwh11385]

Sounds a lot like you actually.

How often do I rely on other's opinions to support my own? I usually point out flaws in logic, misinformation used or out of context data points, or opinion presented as fact - there requires no expert source to counteract that... just common sense that the RWNJs here like you lack.

[Q5Quint]

Cap and trade works great~



Check it out~ we have less acid rain since we capped our sulfur emissions. The clowns were crying that it would bankrupt the country and that 'big government' was too oppressive then too... but who would want to go back to the way it was?

http://politicalclimate.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/cap-and-trade-a-life-flashing-before-our-eyes/

Things like this will be called progress. We had an issue, we addressed it, and we make things better by not raining acid onto peoples heads. Although it is painful for some we have to continue to make things better. Our country is actually a better place because of it, whether they are butthurt about it or not.

As far as the unregulated china/asia market issue.... I think that point is moot since their rapidly rising thirst for energy (increased demand, driving up the price) will only make renewable technologies more market friendly.

Do you know where every electric bike/scooter comes from? How about most hybrid vehicles? How about 90% of the solar panels? Yeah.... they already making all those things. If the USA doesn't get back in that loop what do we have to offer? A lot of broke white people?

These are the same idiots that wait to put up a stoplight at an intersection until somebody dies, the reaction mindset instead of addressing future issues.

So back on the AGW topic:
I think the most pressing thing here politically, whether you believe it or not, is what will actually happen during this presidential election.

It will set a precedent for the whole world once again.... that either the USA is a forward thinking feel-good world power or a fear-mongering empirical terrorist hell bent on controlling fossil fuel reserves with military power around the globe.

Neither candidate seems to be actually pushing anything forward which leaves us as one of the last-place '1st world' countries once again to address an issue. I believe both see the issue as polarizing so they will try to avoid it as long as they can to get old people to vote for them. Those dang baby boomers holding us back and making us look like last place idiots again!

Debate seen here from sciencedebate between romney and obama: http://www.sciencedebate.org/debate12/

Here is what Australia is doing: http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/g...ent/adapt.aspx

European Union:

http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/brief/causes/index_en.htm

Germany:

http://www.bmu.de/english/climate/international_climate_policy/doc/41824.php

Israel:

http://old.sviva.gov.il/Enviroment/Static/Binaries/index_pirsumim/p0618_1.pdf

The United Nations is obviously on board:

http://unfccc.int/2860.php

California is pretty much its own country:

http://www.climatechange.ca.gov/

Japan: Kyoto etc

etc etc. not all good links but I want to encourage looking that shit up.

So deny it or not we are actually in 55th place acording to these schmucks


Germanwatch updated the stats for 2012 and we are now 52nd or so.

Germanwatch sounds like a great political watchdog doesnt it?
http://germanwatch.org/klima/ccpi12tm.pdf

lotsa good stuff here: http://germanwatch.org/klima/ccpi.htm


In conclusion:

[gwb72tii]

i read where USA CO2 emissions are back to 1990 levels? due to increased natural gas production/usage.

[rwh11385]

i read where USA CO2 emissions are back to 1990 levels? due to increased natural gas production/usage.

Not sure on the level #, but emissions are indeed down due to increased NG usage, because of technology that made the cleaner fuel more abundant and cheaper.



Now if only that would happen to renewable sources... oh wait.


Whether Big Oil and Gas, and their sheep-like followers within the GOP, like it or not, solar will reach grid parity and renewable will simply be the obvious choice - economically in addition to environmentally.

In the meantime, I pay 1% more for my power to be from renewable sources (wind).

[u3b3rg33k]

Solar is the shit. aside from being a PITA to store (I recommend those "edison" batteries - poor power/weight, but they're cheap & simple and can be deep cycled ad-nauseum without issue (ideas like using li-ion to stabilize grid power make me LOL hard). Find me a generator that will make power for the next 20 years, 6 hours a day without me touching it and I'll buy that like it's hot.

Even release of power from wind/solar is a big deal - the grid can only "absorb" so much intermittent power, so coming up with a way to smooth it out (turn it into a peaking power source instead of an unregulated supply) is becoming more important - just ask Germany.

[rwh11385]

Personally, using power to pump water uphill just to let it fall downhill later to produce power later makes me LOL.

But with or without the complications of inconstant renewable power supply, the grid is going to have to get smarter.

[gwb72tii]

here yopu go Q5
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/demo...climate-change

[u3b3rg33k]

Also nobody answered my question about the electric motorcycle. it doesn't actually help emissions since it is powered by coal but it gives you the option to be able to hook it up to your solar panels one day. The real question here is would I be gay if I bought one?

insofar as the zero bikes are concerned:
I say it does help emissions.
- it consumes far less energy than any other mode of transport (est. $.01 per mile in energy - source zeromotorcycles.com)
- go nuts; charge it during off-peak hours
- it has very low mass
- there's nothing to idle (good for city traffic/emissions)
- max speed of 88MPH (I see what they did there)


Re: is it gay?

for reference:
probable gay motorcycle riding:


probably not gay:

[rwh11385]

LOL

RE: Electric bike emissions - Does anyone have the well-to-wheel energy efficiency and cost for gasoline, compared to NG well to plant, outlet and coal mine-to-outlet? Transporting raw materials spends money and produces emissions before energy is delivered - I look forward to the increase of at site creation. The DoD should help that effort.

Who knows what impacts the reduction of coal and gas transportation might have on the economy. But also offset by future cheaper or less volatile sources. Like the economy has shifted from farm based to factory and then to service with the rise of automation, low-labor involvement in the production (and transport) of energy may lead to more mismatches in skills of labor. There will be need for design, manufacturing, and install/service of systems but those people might be very different than miners or truckers.

For places that have to ship coal, how costly is their power? How much does black lung and explosions cost in human life or medical bills?

[herbivor]

LOL

RE: Electric bike emissions - Does anyone have the well-to-wheel energy efficiency and cost for gasoline, compared to NG well to plant, outlet and coal mine-to-outlet? Transporting raw materials spends money and produces emissions before energy is delivered - I look forward to the increase of at site creation. The DoD should help that effort.

Who knows what impacts the reduction of coal and gas transportation might have on the economy. But also offset by future cheaper or less volatile sources. Like the economy has shifted from farm based to factory and then to service with the rise of automation, low-labor involvement in the production (and transport) of energy may lead to more mismatches in skills of labor. There will be need for design, manufacturing, and install/service of systems but those people might be very different than miners or truckers.

For places that have to ship coal, how costly is their power? How much does black lung and explosions cost in human life or medical bills?

A C&D magazine I read a couple months back gave the equivalent gasoline MPG of emissions being used to charge the Nissan Leaf. It varies depending on what part of the country you're at. Where coal use makes up nearly 100% of the energy such as Wyoming, the equivalent MPG in emissions was around 35 gasoline. Somewhere that uses a lot of nuclear, it was up in the 70's as I recall. So it all depends, but obviously, cleaner energy sources, makes electrical a cleaner option.

[cale]

As someone who's electricity comes completely from a hydro-electric dam an electric bike could be a realistic alternative for me. I hate driving my truck daily, $80 every 1.5 weeks isn't much fun.

here yopu go Q5
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/demo...climate-change

Loving the comments, talk about catch phrase parrots.

[Q5Quint]

here yopu go Q5
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/demo...climate-change

That would be nice but I will believe it when I see it~

I was certain you were going to link to a story about them jumping on the gay marriage platform: http://www.startribune.com/politics/...6.html?refer=y

But that site has some really interesting stories:
"(CNSNews.com) – A final draft of the Republican Party platform includes a first-ever plank on global warming that says human activity has contributed to climate change."
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gop-...rming-man-made

:giggle:

Why do electric bike burnouts remind me of scooters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-j7ocPep_4

In the end I just want to go fast~ and if I can do it without having to think about my purchasing decisions supporting slavery in a third-world country or mountains exploding and Bambi dying that would be great.

We are putting out quotes for pv installed for about $5.50 a watt... that's HALF of what it was just 5 years ago....

$25k (half that with current subsidies assuming your rich and can write it off) should buy you all the electricity you need....for your energy efficient house... forever. Otherwise your paying at least $1k a year to the utility company anyway. Another 5-10k and you just bought all the fuel you need for your electric car.... forever.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1316919.html
Says here the average american spends 2k a year on energy bills and about 2k a year on gasoline... so for the price of 3 years of fuel and 7 years energy you could have unlimited fuel/energy.

I am leaving obvious holes here but the concept is 'neat' to think about.

[rwh11385]

Well, with service providers having rental programs for solar panels for commerical and residential. . . Don't even have to buy to benefit. More options = definitely appreciated. With huge warehouses that have otherwise bare roofs, solar makes a ton of sense. I think I posted a link about the firm that installs and maintains systems for retailers, mentioning IKEA. Anyway, particular if refridgerated, solar roofed warehouses make sense. But I've read that Safeway, Walmart, Costco, Staples, Target, Kohls, and Macys have invested in solar. Obviously purchasing includes large capital costs for long-term savings, so it makes sense for warehouses and office buildings too, but also for consumers to rent from a company if they can't afford financing the purchase.


When I buy a newer house in a few years, solar panel(s) will be my first mod.

[u3b3rg33k]

We are putting out quotes for pv installed for about $5.50 a watt... that's HALF of what it was just 5 years ago....

$25k (half that with current subsidies assuming your rich and can write it off) should buy you all the electricity you need....for your energy efficient house... forever. Otherwise your paying at least $1k a year to the utility company anyway. Another 5-10k and you just bought all the fuel you need for your electric car.... forever.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1316919.html
Says here the average american spends 2k a year on energy bills and about 2k a year on gasoline... so for the price of 3 years of fuel and 7 years energy you could have unlimited fuel/energy.

I am leaving obvious holes here but the concept is 'neat' to think about.

Our bill for electricity alone $699 for july - and that doesn't include the barn bill, which was around $370 or so. We looked at a few systems, the largest of which was an 8kW roof mount, and it was nowhere near big enough to justify. I was told a ground system would cost more (than the roof mount), and wasn't quoted a price. I have trouble believing that...

My quick lazy math says if we wanted to have no electric bill I'd need a 70kW array (4 hour/day of good sun, sometimes) and somewhere to store energy for the rest of the day.

As far as bambi is concerned, I'll happily kill her so long as she ends up on the dinner table.

[herbivor]

When I buy a newer house in a few years, solar panel(s) will be my first mod.

My buddy is a strong libertarian, lives out in the country, built a super efficient house, is skeptical about AGW, but has done the math and figured out that solar panels are cheaper for him in the long run. I'll be helping him install them in a few months. (He's trying to get a lower cost group buy with a friend). So here is a guy who gives 2 shits about AGW, but is smart enough to realize there is value and security in investing is alternative energy sources. I don't understand why others on the right are so resistant.