Global Warming is over.

[decay]

and how does that support the argument that human activity is not a contributing factor?

your 2nd graph makes it look like we haven't reached the new peak yet.

[ForcedFirebird]

Just don't get how a pattern doesn't emerge when looking at this:

[ForcedFirebird]

That's the best you could come up with?

There's 95 references.

Let's start with the original with my awesome paint skills. The red line represents accuracy, since, you know, we weren't accurately measuring temps, the mercury thermometer wasn't even invented until 18th century or so, and even then wasn't well known until the 19th.

Here's the margin of error since 1998 when this was introduced:

[decay]

Paper was released public recently. Updated Sept 10, 2022. It proved the "hockey stick" model was pretty far off. Funny thing is, it used all the same data that has been published up until then, but changed the way the proxy measurements were calculated.

So, going back tot he "supercomputers figured it out", well that same data was presented to the Pc in a different way, and guess what? The outcome was drastically different! Go figure.

I implore you to read it. It's going to strengthen and weaken my observations, as well the opposite.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...lacial_Maximum

Paper was started in Apr '21, updated last month.

quoting directly from that paper:

The unimodal nature of EOF1 implies an association with changes in greenhouse gas (GHG) radiative forcing and ice sheet albedo.

yeah. that. right there.

[ForcedFirebird]

Get real.

Bring it

[ForcedFirebird]

Don't let the "reserchgate" fool you in the we address. It was the only place that displayed the full paper on a link, and not a .pdf. It is published, probably didn't make it to many science outlets just yet, but is peer reviewed and considered valid.

[ForcedFirebird]

Paper was released public recently. Updated Sept 10, 2022. It proved the "hockey stick" model was pretty far off. Funny thing is, it used all the same data that has been published up until then, but changed the way the proxy measurements were calculated.

So, going back tot he "supercomputers figured it out", well that same data was presented to the Pc in a different way, and guess what? The outcome was drastically different! Go figure.

I implore you to read it. It's going to strengthen and weaken my observations, as well the opposite.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350562604_Globally_resolved_surface_temperatures_since_the_Last_Glacial_Maximum

Paper was started in Apr '21, updated last month.

[ForcedFirebird]

Here's a quick human to geological scale.

The last time a guillotine was used on a human, Star Wars was already in the movie theaters. I saw Poltergeist and ET in the theater and drive ins but barely remember Empire. We went to the theater to see it, but I had no idea what was going on, I was 4. I remember clearly the scene when Lukes arm was lopped off. Still had no idea what was really happening. We also saw Jedi, with the coax "you remember the other one, right?" We saw Chitwood Brothers at the county fair.

This thread is already approaching a decade.

Less than 30 years ago, we thought humanity didn't farm, or congregate until Sumerian. Then we discovered Gobekli Tepe. That was the year I graduated high school. Everything I learnt for the last 12 years was 100% wrong. Imagine that. In 1.2 decades every history book that I read and was forced to remember was proved complete wrong. History books that were already "accepted by peers".

If everything is so absolute, who can explain the Antikythera Mechanism being discovered 100yr ago, from a wreck dated 100bc?

These are not whimsical observations.

How's the big bang theory going? Seems the more we think we know, the more we don't really know.

So, throw a bunch of feelings, and teachings in the mix, most humans tend to be tribal. You can do the experiment yourself. Just stand in the corner of a street and stare at a building. Eventually you'll have a bunch of lemmings looking too. No one cares to ask what they are looking at.

[ForcedFirebird]

Proof read! Only going to reply to the first sentence, so don't change it to keep context. :)

I was pointing that nature quickly covered the Chernobyl event, and when the live news was broadcasting, it was going to be 20,000 years before the area would be habitable. I am inclined to say that's on a generational scale, not even close to geological if I saw it on the freaking television in my lifetime.

[decay]

Not gonna try to do quotes, Toughbook is closed so on the phone,but decay

said flip side because we caused it, yet nature reversed it quite quickly.

quickly on a geologic scale, not on a human scale. but i'll again admit that my experience in the military gave me some personal feels about how we use the waste products of nuclear power. depleted uranium is the post-nuclear equivalent of how ancient nations would salt the earth of conquered nations, except instead of preventing preventing crops, it makes a bunch of non-viable children. i'm still barely comfortable discussing the subject, having spent some time as a .50 gunner. but combat-related PTSD is a whole other barrel of fish.

Sure there's some mutations (non life threatening, look up the black frogs). That entire area is now a wildlife refuge and doing well at that.

that last NatGeo link i posted agrees with your assertion; humans stayed there too.

[QUOTE}Nature made nuclear reactor before we were here.[/QUOTE]

not at all at the same scale, and those geologic processes didn't generate waste that had to be disposed of or... otherwise dispensed of.

Ideally small reactors in geologically stable areas with passive protections, this would be far more sustainable than any of this battery crap.

but. there's the part where it's just as energy-intensive to mine, and just like LiFePro batteries, and has to be disposed of once it reaches the end of service life.

No commune. You can come visit, maybe for dinner even, but I will be happy spending the following 50yr without dealing with many people.

we are still allowed to make jokes in here right? i was indicating that with the smiley. :P

Not interested in anarchy. Just leave me alone and I'll leave y'all alone. Follow the laws of the land, and just do the best I can to leave as little as behind as possible - you know, like the old days, leave it like you found it. If my offspring want to take over when I keep, so be it.

see, this is why i make that snarky comment about libertarians just being diet anarchists, because the intersection is like 80%, with the main difference being that anarchists want to erase the existing power structure for the greater good- and for reasons you've also complained about, like:

Ethics go a long way for humanity, and for some reason, it's being checked at the door for sake of greed.

Are you sure we aren't currently semi-anarchist?

america and the world as a whole? absolutely not. but you gotta take a few minutes to scan that article to see why i think that; it's a bit much for a forum post.

but from your description of your ideal retirement i think you might be closely aligned, other than being individualist rather than community-aligned. mutual aid is a big thing in the CA punk community.

[ForcedFirebird]

Not gonna try to do quotes, Toughbook is closed so on the phone,but decay

I've come to hate the word "venn diagram", but it gave me a good visual haha.

Yes, human causes, and when it happened, it was all over the news - I remember clearly. Same year as the Challenger accident. Ukraine was going to be inhabitable for 20,000 years!

I said flip side because we caused it, yet nature reversed it quite quickly. Sure there's some mutations (non life threatening, look up the black frogs). That entire area is now a wildlife refuge and doing well at that.

Nature made nuclear reactor before we were here.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/natures-nuclear-reactors-the-2-billion-year-old-natural-fission-reactors-in-gabon-western-africa/

Ideally small reactors in geologically stable areas with passive protections, this would be far more sustainable than any of this battery crap. The power density is simply not there - ICE's are getting pretty damned efficient. I can drive the e90 475mi in the city on 17gal, or produce enough electricity to power an avg home for 100dy (less than 2 gallons a day). If you remove the bureaucracy, my car engine would be cheaper than the grid - remove the mandated emissions and it does another 20% mileage, or has 20+% more efficiency. Chernobyl was stupid human error in the fact that we "must push that red button", and Fukushima, well, what would you expect when you build a reactor on the ocean, in a seismic area?
Don't get me started on ANY career politician. I lose all respect when one want to referee thier own fight and make laws with conflicting interest. Ethics are almost extinct. Term limits are a must. There's no reason octo/nonagenarians that make up 16%, running a country with a median age of 38 that make up 50%.

No commune. You can come visit, maybe for dinner even, but I will be happy spending the following 50yr without dealing with many people. Sure there will be fresh salad If you like, but don't tell me I'm wrong for eating meat. Soooo many of my friends are having their first kid at my age. Screw that! I had three in diapers at the same time, wouldn't want to be thinking about formula right now.

Not interested in anarchy. Just leave me alone and I'll leave y'all alone. Follow the laws of the land, and just do the best I can to leave as little as behind as possible - you know, like the old days, leave it like you found it. If my offspring want to take over when I keep, so be it.

Ethics go a long way for humanity, and for some reason, it's being checked at the door for sake of greed. Does anyone remember the days when a box would sit out with a slot in it, and you paid on the "honor system"? Anyone worth a salt might be short one day, but they will feel bad and return the next go - or even perhaps drop in too much without correct change? Just in my generation went from honor system to locks on laundry soap. Are you sure we aren't currently semi-anarchist?

[decay]

Wouldn't an anrchist commune, or any other type of community, require rules to run?

yes. it's an untruth that anarchism means "no rules". it doesn't at all mean that there no consequences or sanctions for harming another person.

if you'd like a sorta-quick read, Bakunin would have wanted me to hunt down and share a translation/analysis of one of his books for free. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/libr...-basic-bakunin

[roguetoaster]

Wouldn't an anrchist commune, or any other type of community, require rules to run?

[decay]

While I agree fully humans can change landscape. Look what we did in a Bakini Atoll with nuclear testing, Lake Mead, open mining etc. Then flip the coin and look at Chernobyl.

but wait. how's that flipping the coin? Chernobyl was human-caused.

Supposedly, life couldn't exist there, yet the city shows you how quickly nature will take over anything we built once we are not here to maintain it.

interesting read: humans didn't completely leave that exclusion zone. there were holdouts that said "fuck you" and somehow managed to survive. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/c...clear-accident

i don't have stats on what their cancer rates were like compared to areas less directly affected (which includes a *lot* of europe). there's also fukushima and three mile island... i'm not a big fan of nuclear power. partly because we'd been using depleted uranium ammunition in iraq for about 5 years before i got there and the few times we visited hospitals there they had flipper babies in formeldahyde jars in hospitals in fallujah when we medevac'd a combatant and not gonna lie that fucked with my head.

The bigger issue is humans are greedy and exploit until nothing is left.

that's one place the venn diagrams of our opinions are a circle.

The same people who are forcing regulations are the same ones benefiting from said exploits in the end.

don't fucking get me started on nancy pelosi's husband. dude made a fiefdom of california's water supply and love or hate my home state as you will, but it's part of america's foodbasket, and he privatized and re-routed our water suppliy under her watch and with her assistance, including rerouting some of it so aunty nancy could run her own winefields. i'm not saying that guy who beat him half to death should have finished the job, but i wouldn't have shed any tears over it.

Two more years, the last kid will be out the door, and I can go live on a plot of land, where I can have my shop in the yard, and grow/graze/hunt/fish my own food. Flowing water and bio gasification, I can have my own reliable electricity and have fuel for my other ICE's. Y'all can keep these cities - if it weren't for the school we have, we'd already be gone, all 4 have gone there from 6-12th grades and are on good paths.

i have similar dreams. let's start a sustainable anarchist commune. :P

[ForcedFirebird]

arite son. yeah, gloves-off is the rules in P&R, and i'm as guilty as a few others here of that.

even as someone who deployed to a part of the world where environmental practices permantly ruined the place- trust that it was some shit seeing somewhere in the world where nothing grows because there's no topsoil anymore and the sun "sets" 10 degrees above the horizon because air pollution- and then became a direct-action environmental activist (can't discuss too many details, the statute of limitations hasn't expired yet, but i did make a thread about my Standing Rock deploy in this subforum)- and then used that GI Bill money to go to school for environmental science to further understand the subject-

Firebird and i have gotten into it a few times and not just in this thread, but he's one of the last remaining members willing to discuss the issue reasonably and make his own data-driven arguments and then discuss what they mean. wait until you meet mrsleeve, if that dude shows up again, but i'm pretty sure he's given up on e30 projects and is still driving a ford f450.

maybe read a few pages back in the thread, because you just walked into a discussion that's been ongoing for years, and there's been a good debate going lately. remember how a couple people told you this ain't reddit?

choose your targets more carefully before you go weapons-hot.

While I agree fully humans can change landscape. Look what we did in a Bakini Atoll with nuclear testing, Lake Mead, open mining etc. Then flip the coin and look at Chernobyl. Supposedly, life couldn't exist there, yet the city shows you how quickly nature will take over anything we built once we are not here to maintain it.

The bigger issue is humans are greedy and exploit until nothing is left. The same people who are forcing regulations are the same ones benefiting from said exploits in the end.

Two more years, the last kid will be out the door, and I can go live on a plot of land, where I can have my shop in the yard, and grow/graze/hunt/fish my own food. Flowing water and bio gasification, I can have my own reliable electricity and have fuel for my other ICE's. Y'all can keep these cities - if it weren't for the school we have, we'd already be gone, all 4 have gone there from 6-12th grades and are on good paths.