Question for Christians.

[FunfGan]

I am not impressed if this is the best an omnipotent, omniscient creator has to offer. To paraphrase Carlin, results like these do not belong on the resume of a Supreme Being.

Why do so many animals of lower order have far superior senses to the "best creation"?

I get that religion was born of an attempt to explain things to illiterate people and to create a more potent reason to follow authority than "because I said so". "God said so" is more effective, no?

Religions have been far too willing to exterminate those who dare to speak out. They call it blasphemy or heresy. And Islam cannot even bear someone changing to a different religion. Apostasy is punishable by death.

Religion is the ultimate bully- do as we do or die.

So you think Human nature alone would put us off better w/ out religion? Honestly. Look at the ghetto's and places where religion is just lacking. Are they more peaceful, better people? No. Nobody can even reason that religion is the cause of pain. Take any of the crusades for example, they were purely human error in the name of religion. Now, Islam preaches violence in the name of Allah, but thats not what I'm talking about. Human error is what accounts for much of the useless violence in Christian history. Thats not even beginning to look at all the other religions, or those who persecute AGAINST Christians, and are killing them for their belief.

[cmybimmer]

I am not impressed if this is the best an omnipotent, omniscient creator has to offer. To paraphrase Carlin, results like these do not belong on the resume of a Supreme Being.

Why do so many animals of lower order have far superior senses to the "best creation"?

I get that religion was born of an attempt to explain things to illiterate people and to create a more potent reason to follow authority than "because I said so". "God said so" is more effective, no?

Religions have been far too willing to exterminate those who dare to speak out. They call it blasphemy or heresy. And Islam cannot even bear someone changing to a different religion. Apostasy is punishable by death.

Religion is the ultimate bully- do as we do or die.

We don't have to be physically the best creation (which is also a big miracle itself... The complexity/functioning of our bodies are enough to believe in Gods presence. To think we just happened to shape into our bodies from thin air is ignorance in my opinion), but like mentioned before we are valued as a creation for our worship to God on our own free will. Angels for example are created ONLY for the worship of God, with no other purpose for their lives..

And yes, physically we may be lacking amongst other creations, but you don't see dogs prostrating to God such as (some) humans. That's why we are labeled the best of creation.. If you're not impressed, then by all means, one-up Him.

[Rsully70sev]

12 years of Catholic private school. I go to church every so often, it's peaceful and gives me time to reflect on the good and bad influences in my life.

I believe in God, and that Jesus had a powerful impact in his day, and continues to in present time. I don't take the bible literally, nor follow it word for word, but I feel like it's implemented a strong foundation on my character.

[Fourbanger]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

-Epicurus

[mar1t1me]

We humans, are the best creation Allah (God) has created.

I am not impressed if this is the best an omnipotent, omniscient creator has to offer. To paraphrase Carlin, results like these do not belong on the resume of a Supreme Being.

Why do so many animals of lower order have far superior senses to the "best creation"?

I get that religion was born of an attempt to explain things to illiterate people and to create a more potent reason to follow authority than "because I said so". "God said so" is more effective, no?

Religions have been far too willing to exterminate those who dare to speak out. They call it blasphemy or heresy. And Islam cannot even bear someone changing to a different religion. Apostasy is punishable by death.

Religion is the ultimate bully- do as we do or die.

[Fourbanger]

I want to marry Isaac Brock.

Suspension of disbelief or "willing suspension of disbelief" is a formula for justifying the use of fantastic or non-realistic elements in literary works of fiction. It was put forth in English by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative.

Wikipedia

[Fusion]

/thread

[Kershaw]

in 2000 years we are all going to worship steve jobs as the true herald of our new age.

mark my words. 4000 AD. steve jobs. god.

[RobertK]

Bingo

I feel i have to jump in for a sec to clarify this, then the mic is your guys' again..

Im Muslim, so this isn't something I read online or anything. We humans, are the best creation Allah (God) has created.. Unlike the angels, Allah has given us a gift called free-will. In other words, we have the ability to do whatever the hell we want. Our actions are totally and completely up to us, which means WE are held accountable for what we do. The prophets in the past (Jesus/Moses/Abraham/Noah/Mohammed, etc... (pbut)) were all examples of rightful human beings for us to follow.. They were Messengers of Allah, nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, we are not "saved" by anything or anyone other than ourselves, and of course the mercy of God. We were shown by the prophets how to live life, we cannot say we were never informed. Who are we to rearrange their teachings/practices and say its the same thing?

BTW, im not in any way against Christianity.. I have much respect for it, especially since it was introduced by the holy prophet Jesus (pbuh) which we respect highly in Islam. Like ak- suggested multiple times, he is just a prophet of Allah.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, just wanted to clear some things up before people started guessing what we believe :-)



.

This is by no means an attack against Islam but I've always wondered how Islam can teach that Allah gives you free will but then commands its followers to attack or tax those who do not follow Islam? Its like you can pick any religion you want.. but you if don't pick the "right" one prepare to get punched in the gizzard.

I understand Christianity has a history just as violent and I believe that's why in this information age more people are beginning to use common sense when forming their belief system.

[Wh33lhop]

Snoochie-boochies

Fifteen bucks, little man
Put that shit in my hand
If that money doesn't show then you owe me owe me owe

[z31maniac]

Not quite. I used to call myself an atheist, and as ridiculous as I think the claims of a conscious self-creating force are it's impossible to know. I totally reject claims made by religion, but beyond that no one can say with certainty.

See, and think Science resoundingly takes care of most assumptions/assertions in the bible.

Everything Christianity does and exists for can be accomplished through not having any religious affiliation.
With that being said, Christianity is bought and sold as if its a good or something obtainable. Most of the serious answers I see in here sound like rhetoric from church, saying a bunch of something and nothing of anything in particular. Which pretty much describes the human race too when put into perspective. Pretty evident we're all a part of something bigger than ourselves, why people need to create a "reason" for being is way above me. Seems stupid. Look around at the planet Earth, is this not good enough for you?

But this, I don't need fear of a higher power to be a good person.

I try to live by the Golden Rule.


Except toward you waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffless on the forum.

Snoochie-boochies

[cmybimmer]

I don't see the connection in denying Marry's virgin birth; I'm not.
I believe that if God says something is to be, it will be.
Jesus was born with a purpose. God wanted it to be. Like a prophet; a messenger. There was a goal.
That's where I'm coming from in a sense.

Bingo

How would one be saved through Islam?

I feel i have to jump in for a sec to clarify this, then the mic is your guys' again..

Im Muslim, so this isn't something I read online or anything. We humans, are the best creation Allah (God) has created.. Unlike the angels, Allah has given us a gift called free-will. In other words, we have the ability to do whatever the hell we want. Our actions are totally and completely up to us, which means WE are held accountable for what we do. The prophets in the past (Jesus/Moses/Abraham/Noah/Mohammed, etc... (pbut)) were all examples of rightful human beings for us to follow.. They were Messengers of Allah, nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, we are not "saved" by anything or anyone other than ourselves, and of course the mercy of God. We were shown by the prophets how to live life, we cannot say we were never informed. Who are we to rearrange their teachings/practices and say its the same thing?

BTW, im not in any way against Christianity.. I have much respect for it, especially since it was introduced by the holy prophet Jesus (pbuh) which we respect highly in Islam. Like ak- suggested multiple times, he is just a prophet of Allah.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, just wanted to clear some things up before people started guessing what we believe :-)

Islam views him as the Messiah too buddy.

Kaiser is correct here on his statements.
That's the only difference in Christian-Jesus and Muslim-Jesus.

.

[Fusion]

written by man many many years ago, then passed down and translated

Very badly translated by the way. You can find Bible translation problems all over the internets. There are words/phrases/sentances that can hardly be translated because either they didn't have the vocabulary back then or they simply don't make sense.
How priests today relate texts like that to supermarkets for example is totally crazy.

The fact that religions function as a tax exempt business, and have done so for hudreds of years, is also sickening.

Indulgences became increasingly popular in the Middle Ages as a reward for displaying piety and doing good deeds, though, doctrinally speaking, the Church stated that the indulgence was only valid for temporal punishment for sins already forgiven in the Sacrament of Confession. The faithful asked that indulgences be given for saying their favourite prayers, doing acts of devotion, attending places of worship, and going on pilgrimage; confraternities wanted indulgences for putting on performances and processions; associations demanded that their meetings be rewarded with indulgences. Money raised by indulgences was used for many righteous causes, both religious and civil; building projects funded by indulgences include churches, hospitals, leper colonies, schools, roads, and bridges.[37]
However, the later Middle Ages saw the growth of considerable abuses. Greedy commissaries sought to extract the maximum amount of money for each indulgence.[39] Professional "pardoners"[4] (quaestores in Latin) - who were sent to collect alms for a specific project - practiced the unrestricted sale of indulgences. Many of these quaestores exceeded Church teachings, whether in avarice or ignorant zeal, and promised impossible rewards like salvation from eternal damnation in return for money.[37] With the permission of the Church, indulgences also became a way for Catholic rulers to fund expensive projects, such as Crusades and cathedrals, by keeping a significant portion of the money raised from indulgences in their lands.[37] There was a tendency to forge documents declaring that indulgences had been granted.[37] Indulgences grew to extraordinary magnitude, in terms of longevity and breadth of forgiveness.

[ak-]

This is the most I've ever participated in a politics & religion thread.

I'm outta here! It's been fun.

[FunfGan]

Everything Christianity does and exists for can be accomplished through not having any religious affiliation.
With that being said, Christianity is bought and sold as if its a good or something obtainable. Most of the serious answers I see in here sound like rhetoric from church, saying a bunch of something and nothing of anything in particular. Which pretty much describes the human race too when put into perspective. Pretty evident we're all a part of something bigger than ourselves, why people need to create a "reason" for being is way above me. Seems stupid. Look around at the planet Earth, is this not good enough for you?

How is it "bought and sold" ? Thats the point, good works, while good, do not get you into heaven. Take that as you will, I won't force it to you. Knowing there is loving(yet angry and forgiving) God above you and everything else? Even if you don't "buy" into Christianity, that at least has to give you a sense of why people believe and trust in it.